tu_79
Deity
The same as Moais?
Inca
- Thread starter Damirith
- Start date
InkAxis
King
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2020
- Messages
- 785
Personally I don't think it's too big of a problem of how mountains are needed. It's their whole UA. They have a unique playstyle with mountains and I would want to keep that. If you have a bad start then either restart or keep playing. Its a choice you can make. Most times I've spawned with the Inca there have been quite a few mountains.
I partially agree, however I think we should be clear about the goal. Do we think the Inca are too strong around mountains or do we balancing around them always having access to mountains?
Personally I’d like them to be playable without mountains and really good with them. That in mind I think they are kind of lacking outside of mountains. Slingers are a good but not amazing UU, and I think we all agree that Terrace farms are a bit underwhelming. That leaves their mountain bonuses as the only really great thing about them, and that’s based on map RNG. Of course you can just reload like you said, but the AI doesn’t have that luxury, which is imo something that should be considered. I’d rather the Inca AI not be at the complete mercy of his neighbors just because there isn’t a mountain in sight (not saying this is currently the case, just hypothetically).
If mountain start bias was a thing I’d say buff the TF and leave their other bonuses alone. But since it isn’t I feel they are more susceptible to bad map RNG than everyone else.
InkAxis
King
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2020
- Messages
- 785
That's the point. They're a mountain civ.
I mean yeah it would be nice ... But at the same time you can say similar things about civs starting in crappy spots. AI Inca will sometimes get a good spot, sometimes not. I would prefer to keep inca's thematic flair and interesting gameplay over fixing the fact that the AI sometimes doesn't do well due to start location.
JamesNinelives
Emperor
Are they? I mean historically yes but gameplay-wise I'll always seen them as a hill/mountain civ. They have a hill bias after all, and their UA relates to hills. They do pretty well in hilly areas even without a lot of mountains. Not that mountains aren't important, but I see them as being thematically connected to both
.Without mountains all they have is UU and double movement on hills, UI is worse than generic ones...seems not much
Why not ? Many civs already are terrain-independent or depend on terrain that is very common. If the whole continents are hills + mountains (like Highlands map), it's a different issue...We should balance Inca so that without mountains they are not gimped and are not overpowered with too many mountains.
Actually "hill regions" should already be mountainous since mountains always spawn near hills. Maybe the existing problems are:
1. There's no guarantee that the spawnpoint itself is near mountains. The mountain range might be more than 3 tiles away.
2. Since coastal and river biases are prioritized, the Inca might get other regions instead.
None of those look easy to solve.
1. There's no guarantee that the spawnpoint itself is near mountains. The mountain range might be more than 3 tiles away.
2. Since coastal and river biases are prioritized, the Inca might get other regions instead.
None of those look easy to solve.
You may not get mountain range in a 20 tile radius. Sometimes all you get is 1-3 lone mountains.
It is not so simple. Take grassland mountains, for example. You may get some mountains, but very few hills instead. Somehow grassland in general tends to be flat. Grassland is notorius for giving you mountains without hills next to it, many flat grassland tiles next to mountains instead. So...
- getting hills doesn't automatically give you mountains
- getting mountains doesn't automatically give you hills
It doesn't work like that.
A map is first divided into "regions" (rectangles), then each region is classified into one of eight region types: Desert, Tundra, Jungle, Forest, Hills, Plains, Grassland and Hybrid. Each plot/land/feature type has to reach a percentage (20%, 20%, 20%, 25%, 30%, 30%, 30% respectively) for the region to be considered that type, otherwise it's Hybrid. If two plot/land/feature type reaches the threshold, the higher one respective to their base percentage counts (e.g. 55% Desert and 63% Hills count as Desert).
That means, unless the terrain (desert, tundra, plains, grassland) is very hybrid and there are very few trees, a non-hilly region won't be classified as a Hill region. In a standard map most mountains should spawn in the most hilly region, so that start bias should work most of the time.
Melchizedek
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 324
I disagree with this kind of change. As long as it isn't ridiculous, I like that some starts are very strong and others a big challenge. It makes each playthrough different. Once in awhile it's fun to explore across the ocean and find a monster Inca you have to deal with.
I can only say that I encountered many grassland mountain starts that I would call a scam. You get a mountain range but very few spots for TF
You might be better off changing map scripts.
I am using the standard script. It's possible I've got it as a random pick and not as part of the bias. The bias system is only a best effort try, not a guarantee you will get a specific start.
I'll toss in a memory from a dozen games or so ago...
I started an Inca game on a standard Continents map where my Capital had 9 Mountains nearby. My first expansion had 13 Mountains, then another expansion with 10, and another with only 4 but with a Natural Wonder.
Guess which Pantheon I picked?
The game was a total slaughter.
I started an Inca game on a standard Continents map where my Capital had 9 Mountains nearby. My first expansion had 13 Mountains, then another expansion with 10, and another with only 4 but with a Natural Wonder.
Guess which Pantheon I picked?
The game was a total slaughter.
JamesNinelives
Emperor
Really? Why? :|
Necamijat
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2014
- Messages
- 126
They like to spawn in Hills in the communitu script.
