Incessant pangea on Demigod?

Jivilov

Prince
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
414
Greetings Conquest fans. In my vain attempts to crack Demigod with Rome, out of about a dozen tries most every map was pangea except for one or two with continents (on a standard map). I've got all map settings to random, just like when I played on Emperor.

Is there any reason besides dumb luck why I haven't experienced a single archipelago map so far? Or do you have to select that yourself? Thanks and happy gaming.
 
It's not that I WANT archipelago, it's just that you'd think random would cough up an archipelago maybe a third of the time. I'd been thinking that at Demigod, since archipelago maps are supposedly easier for the human, the designers might've made their incidence less likely. Apparently not (?).

FWIW my current game has (apparently, since I haven't traded maps yet) one large continent which I've circumnavigated, with several isolated smaller continents, or large islands. My bosom buddies Xerxes and Gandhi share the big continent with me, Xerxes in the middle. As usual when I play at this level, Xerxes has Musketmen while I've got Legionaries, and at least two other civs have Galleons (they're across the ocean, but I know where their capitals are).

I'm still researching Feudalism at 20% and nobody will sell me Monotheism or Engineering. Looks like I'm DOA unless a miracle intervenes. Such is life :wallbash:.
 
No clue on what the odds are of getting a given type map as I mostly choose one. I do know that std dev comes into to play, so doing it handful of times is not a large enough sample to judge.

Maybe a 1000 would be enough to get an idea, since the types are limited to a few.
 
Much obliged vmxa. I've "researched by gold" through Steam Power. Got some two-fers with Joan but she's since gone under to the Turks. How sad.

At the moment Gandhi, Hiawatha and Osman are helping me dogpile the Persians. Silly fool Xerxes decided to attack me right after I started cranking out cavalry. This is getting fun!

Cheers and have a happy :).
 
I was going to post a similar topic to this but from a different angle (I probably will at some point), but Archipelago generally in Civ 3 is appallingly bad and even selecting Archipelago with 80% Water still leaves you basically playing a Continents Map, so it might well be that you've actually been randomly selected an Archipelago Map but it just doesn't feel like that because the world is designed so badly it feels like a Continents game.

I played a Huge Archipelago 80% recently, started on a smallish island, boomed to be first to Seafaring and The Great Lighthouse, set out to be the first to any 'spare' islands and... I had three land masses to my north, one mega-mass with three Civs already on it, so big it would take me all game to conquer (it took me 1000s of years to circumnavigate it alone), one pretty darn big land mass with two Civs on it and one just plain massive 'island' already completely dominated a Civ.

There was nothing at all to the south of my island that could be found prior to Navigation, even with very long distance suicide runs.

So I was basically playing Japan if Japan was where Indonesia is - a choice of 'expanding' to either China, India or Australia (all of which were already fully covered with a dominating Civ).

I was, like, "so where's my 'Archipelago' feels game? Are you, like... ripping me off or something?"

When I select 'Archipelago' I'm wanting the idea of competing to settle similarly sized tiny to small sized islands, many connected by easy Sea and Coast squares, but some really neat rewards for risking Ocean squares and prioritising naval Techs and production. I'm not selecting Archipelago to get Continents + some islands thrown in.

The game designers really dropped the ball here in my opinion. It's like no-one at head office had any love or interest in the concept of making Archipelago actually feel like an Archipelago, they just tweaked some parameters and thought "Oh well, that'll do" and, no, it most certainly does NOT do.

It's not like there's a lack of source material to guide what an Archipelago should 'feel' like:

islandsunlabelled-1024x662.jpg



And, basically, you want nothing bigger than maybe a 5-10 size twelve city island and, if it it's going to be bigger than that then it should have a large central Volcanic area that's pretty much uninhabitable. There should be very few immediately easily habitable areas, with Forests, Jungles, Marshland and Tundra covering practically every square inch and there should be very few to almost zero Plains and grasslands are mainly for animals rather than growing root vegetables (Hills with Cows on).

When selecting Archipelago, it shouldn't just be about selecting to have 5 or 6 Continents instead of 2, it should be about the whole map 'feeling' like you have chosen a completely different landscape, there should be code to limit the size of Islands, limit what they can have on them, what they look like and, most importantly, be more relevant to Seafaring Civs than simply having the opportunity to 'discover' more than just one 4by4 landmass when you've produced the Great Lighthouse.

The only way to have a 'realish' Archipelago game is to reduce the Opponents to one, which is just absurdly too far in the opposite direction. Even with 16 Civs playing, the map should be capable of allowing for all 16 to start on independent land masses with plenty left to 'discover' (maybe the largest three islands always starting with 2 Civs max).

Rant over!
 
Thanks Buttercup. Apparently my current map, which turned out to be two continents, one large island, one small, and a tiny one, is considered an "archipelago" by the designers. I've had others much like it, along with a couple "pangea" with single-tile isthmuses (isthmi?).

That's cool. If others can win Demigod with such maps, so can I. Eventually. Maybe. Then again, some cats got it, some cats ain't. Cheers.
 
If you want a good Archipelago map, when you go to new game, you will see in the upper right hand corner of the map choices the map seed, which will be set at "0". Go to that and enter a 6 to 8 digit number, maybe a family birthday, your anniversary (if married), significant date to you, or a significant date in history, like July 4, 1776, or December 7, 1941. That will likely get you a good Archipelago map, with lots of islands and maybe one or two larger land masses. Best if you use a standard size map or larger. I tend to go with what I call a Huge+ map in the editor, something like 300 by 200, to really spread things out. I should warn you that if you do use a large number to start the Random Number Generator for a map, the more the likelihood of getting large clusters of luxury and bonus resources. When I say large, I mean like 7+ resources in adjacent tiles. The largest that I had, and there may be a picture on the Screen Shot thread is 13 elephants all adjacent to each other. I also had 7 cattle on adjacent tiles of grassland. Lots of steak for that city.

Also, after a lot of map generating in the editor, the number of each strategic resource in the game is based on the number of players, plus or minus 1. The fewer the number of players, the fewer the number of each strategic resource.
 
Thanks for the tip timerover. Nothing like lotsa beef to make the citizens productive.
 
Here's the map which was (kinda) typical but this one really took the biscuit:


Archipelago_zps027dd807.png



As you can see, from my start position, there's nothing at all Archipelago about it. There's five continents, all of which have room enough for at least 20 cities (and that's with AI gapping) and one is even on par with a full on continent fitting about 40 (AI gapped) cities.

There's a total of four small islands on the map which might be considered Archipelago-sized, and even one of those is still a tad too big. There's only a minute amount of teeny islands.

While the game is 'winnable', it would not be via naval superiority, it would be by invading a continent. This is the point at which I quit this game, just totally cheesed off that my Seafaring Civ with The Great Lighthouse and Magellan's Voyage counted for ZERO.

Can you imagine all my early boats either sinking to the south or engaged in never-ending circling to the north... so... tedious...
 
A pity. Civ isn't fair or balanced since starting position makes such a huge difference. Just like in real life, come to think of it.
 
Buttercup, what size map is it and did you use a different number than Zero for the "seed" number?
 
Luck has nothing to do with it. If you start on Pangea or Continents then you are going to need land troops and virtually no naval units. On Archipelago you're supposed to need naval troops and virtually no land troops. Whereabouts you start is pretty irrelevant (geographically). An Archipelago simply shouldn't just be clumped Continents, it should be a crazy-paving of small to tiny islands.

It's a Huge map and I have no idea what the seed it, but I selected 80% water Archipelago from the initial selection screen, as I normally do.
 
In terms of victories from bad stating positions, that's not really the issue:


EnglishDiplo1_zps70ac6cb0.png



For this game I was actually delighted I was in a fully excluded location, that was my hope - to use Archipelago to protect myself from AI interaction until it suited me.

But, as you can see, while this map is slightly more appealing as an Archipelago, it's still four 'too big' islands and six 'about right' islands with scant few tiny islands.

Archipelagos really should have landmass size limits.
 
Luck has nothing to do with it. If you start on Pangea or Continents then you are going to need land troops and virtually no naval units. On Archipelago you're supposed to need naval troops and virtually no land troops. Whereabouts you start is pretty irrelevant (geographically). An Archipelago simply shouldn't just be clumped Continents, it should be a crazy-paving of small to tiny islands.

It's a Huge map and I have no idea what the seed it, but I selected 80% water Archipelago from the initial selection screen, as I normally do.

Let me do some experimenting with the editor and get back to you. I normally do not get that sort of setup with Archipelago. Are you on Windows or a Mac? I have discovered that makes a different with respect to the random seed generator.
 
Luck has nothing to do with it. If you start on Pangea or Continents then you are going to need land troops and virtually no naval units. On Archipelago you're supposed to need naval troops and virtually no land troops. Whereabouts you start is pretty irrelevant (geographically).

So starting position is irrelevant for any map? Or just on (so-called) archipelagos? I thought grassland by a river beats tundra or plains regardless of map configuration.
 
For the most part, I think if people start on the extremities of Tundra or Rocky mountains, they tend to just reload do they not...? Unless they are particularly interested in an extra challenge?

Undoubtedly pretty much any extremity you want would break the rule, such as starting on an isolated one-square island, but, essentially, if someone's reloading to anything just even remotely OK (not necessarily uber-awesome), then, generally, no, specific location isn't that big a deal.
 
OK thanks. Seems like I failed to distinguish between geography and terrain. Sorry 'bout that.
 
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