Inciting Revolt/Subverting City

[kundor]

I never really used diplomats or spies before reading about their usefulness on this forum, and usually conquest before the modern era/spies, so excuse my ignorance...
but what's the difference between inciting a revolt and subverting a city? Apparently subverting costs twice as much

 

[Karl Marx the Penguin]

I'm sure about all the ramifications, but both do the same thing except that subversion usually has less of a negative impact on relations.

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This has been Karl Marx the Penguin.
-- "Workers [penguins] of the World Unite"

 

[spycatcher34]

Incite revolt = war
Subvert = no war

Im not sure why but thats what will happen so if your not looking for a war SUBVERT! Take it from a spy thats how you gain territory w/o war




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The Spy has Spoken

 

[ASM]

Actually.. even if you just subvert, they know it was you and they get really pissed off at you really fast.. you really can't avoid a war even if you pay twice as much.

 

[spycatcher34]

This never happems too me r u sure they usally dont even know

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The Spy has Spoken


[This message has been edited by spycatcher34 (edited August 02, 2001).]

 

[kundor]

Actually.. even if you just subvert, they know it was you and they get really pissed off at you really fast.. you really can't avoid a war even if you pay twice as much.
--ASM

This never happems too me r u sure they usally dont even know
--spycatcher34

Perhaps this changes with the difficulty level you're playing at?
Anyway, now I get the idea...thanks!

 

[ASM]

Originally posted by kundor:
Perhaps this changes with the difficulty level you're playing at?
Anyway, now I get the idea...thanks! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

I dunno.. I usually play at deity

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

If you incite a revolt, you get an international incident and your government may collapse and send you into anarchy. If you subvert, you don't get the international incident adn no government collaspe.

 

[spycatcher34]

I play at king

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The Spy has Spoken

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough:
If you incite a revolt, you get an international incident and your government may collapse and send you into anarchy. If you subvert, you don't get the international incident adn no government collaspe.

Are you sure? I never noticed it.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

It may only happen while in a Republic or Democracy as those are the only governments I have typically been in when I start buying cities.

I may be blending doing other actions such as sabotage and such, but as far as I remember it can happen. I'll check it once I get home and let ya know. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>


On Edit: I just loaded my GOTM and checked what happened if I incited a revolt on the last Celtic city. It caused an international incident and my Democracy collasped. Subverting it had no such effect.

So it does happen. In this instance I was at a Democracy and incited a revolt with a civ that I was at peace with.

[This message has been edited by Duke of Marlbrough (edited August 03, 2001).]

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough:
So it does happen. In this instance I was at a Democracy and incited a revolt with a civ that I was at peace with.

So it may be caused by the international incident itself, not directly by the act of bribing...

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Yes. The international incident causes the government to collapse. But the act of bribing a civ you are at peace with is what brings on the international incident.

This really only matters if you are at peace with the civ and try to bribe the city in any way other than subversion. If you are at war with them and do it, there is no international incident.

 

[allan]

Which is why when you're at war with a civ, the option for "subverting" doesn't come up.... there's no use for spending twice as much money to avoid an int'l incident in that case.

In "cease-fire" situations, will inciting revolts cause incidents, or no?

[This message has been edited by allan (edited August 05, 2001).]

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

When at a cease fire, the option for subvert is there. If a revolt is done, you get the incident.

 

[Aristonico]

-I haven't find any difference depending on game lavel between revolt/subvert (I played all levels at this point)
-If you are at peace and you pay a revolt, government collapses and you start a war with that civ et allii. If you subvert, you pay double but nothing happens except, may be a visit from the consul of the other civ moaning a little.
-If you already are at war, you can't subvert, only incite a revolt. That is useful for your counterattacks (if you are the "victim" of this war)

 

[Master of Ceremonies]

The best thing to do if you want to buy off a city and don't have the cash to subvert is to change your goverment type. By having a revolution the government can't collapse. If you have the statue of Liberty you can choose Democracy (or Republic) again on your next turn and all is well. You may risk some unhappiness in your cities during the revolution and of course you lose the trade for that turn, but it may be worth it if you can grab a couple of key cities.

 

[Caesar19]

Just remember my friend that the person you spy on is going to be really pissed off. So dont do either if your allied okay because if you do then your reputation is forever damaged. Instead wait til your at war okay. Feeling the full brunt of a couple of armies is a lot harder then doing it with allies.
Nuff said.
Cheers Caesar 19

 

[dreadhead7]

I'm rarely at war, so I always subvert, and I don't do that unless another civ builds their cities close to mine, or in an area where I wanted to build a city. I play at deity, and I've never had any problems. The only thing that happens with me is that the civ whose city I subverted will contact me and demand a tech. If I have the Great Wall, or the UN, I won't give it to them, and they moan about what they'd do if I didn't have the GW or UN. If I don't have either of these wonders, then I give them the tech, and they go away. By this time, I am either a Republic or Democracy, but this has happened even while I was in Despotism.

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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

 

[Goatman]

[ QUOTE]Originally announced by dreadhead7: [ B]If I have the great wall, or UN... [/b][/quote ]

If you intend to capture many towns of the opposition without declairing war , then these wonders are a must. They enable you to manipulate your enemy in to doing practically anything.

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I know all of the answers, It's the questions that confuse me.