Informational: Should bavaria be its own province?

[disorganizer]

There are plans being discussed whether bavaria should be put in a province of its own to have more provinces benefit from the capitol. The drawback would be a really small province with only 1 city in it.

What does the populace think about that plan?

Related Discussion:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31202

This poll is for informational purposes only.

Options:
Yes, i could support bavaria in its own province
No, bavaria should not have its own province
Abstain

Poll will be up for 48 hours.
No quorum needed.

Comments in poll-thread are wanted and allowed!

 

[disorganizer]

Why i support it:
It gives us the chance to have the provinces surrounding bavaria equally participate from its benefits.
3-4 provinces would have low corruption.

 

[FortyJ]

Dis, I personally think that establishing Bavaria as its own province is a bad idea for the following reasons:

• If I'm not mistaken, our own laws do not allow for a gubernatorial election until the province contains three cities. Therefore, the governor of the capitol province would have to be appointed, effectively providing the Domestic Leader with a vote in the Senate, which I feel goes against the nature of seperation of powers.
• While it is uncertain at this time whether or not we will ever need to move our capitol to another city, doing so would render such a province with a single city, likely burdened with corruption and waste - not the most desirable province to govern.

Just my two cents... (or should I say 2gp...)

 

[Padma]

I have liked the idea of a Federal District of Bohemia (one-city province) since it was first proposed, for the reasons dis gave.

FortyJ has a point, however, about the governor of the province. Perhaps the Mayor would double as governor? It would need to be worked out.

As for moving the capitol, If souch a thing were to occur, we could just fold Bavaria into one of the neighboring provinces.

 

[Kennelly]

No,I don't like the idea of a 1-city province.

 

[disorganizer]

Forty:
No, election is allowed for any province. The rules only say that cities in no province can be governed by domestic department until they extend 3 cities.
No rule on how big a province has to be.
So the governor of Bavaria DB would be properly elected like every other governor.

Padma:
Of course there would be no mayor of Bavaria any more, as this would be the governor of Bavaria DB.
If the capitol is mooved, then Bavaria would revert back to Bohemia.

Side Comment:
the proposal it totally inside the ruleset. no change to rules is needed to implement it (city borders are also geographically base)

 

[Zarn]

As the Domestic Leader, I feel I have some say. I don't want the Domestic Department to run the capitol. However, it won't run it, because the rules do not say that. Believe me that I don't want to control the capitol's builds or have to participate in the Senate. I have enough things to do.

 

[disorganizer]

? nobody asked you 2 do that ;-)
i just carified the rules for forty that there is no rule saying a province must have at least 3 cities.

 

[FortyJ]

Dis,

You are absolutely correct about the rules governing gubernatorial elections, and as such, I withdraw my objection on that point. However, I still feel that creating a capitol-only province is inefficient and against the spirit of our laws.

Our domestic leader is charged with creating provincial borders that are consistent with natural geographic boundaries (rivers, mountains, etc...). As such, the creation of a single-city province is not inherently against the spirit of the law (for example, an island in the middle of the ocean may be pefectly suited for a province by itself, because the terrain defines the border).

However, our capitol is not located on an island in the middle of nowhere (and it's a good thing, too). Would this capitol-only province contain only the city itself, or the surrounding terrain as well? If so, how much terrain? Remember that city borders are culturally based, not necessarily geographically based.

Also, the anti-corruption benefits generated by our capitol will not likely extend throughout three entire provinces. Valhalla and Morgana will surely benefit for many years to come, and due to the unforgiving terrain nearby, we may be able to create 2 or 3 future settlements that would also benefit, but beyond that, all cities will begin to feel the effects of seperation from the capitol.

Finally, capitol relocation is still a problem. Will we be able to find a city for our new capitol that happens to be near the borders of two or three other provinces so that the new anti-corruption zone equally benefits those provinces as well? Furthermore, if the capitol has been moved and Bavaria is to be "absorbed" by one of its neighboring provinces, which one?

In short, I'm opposed to the idea, but not avidly so (contrary to what you must believe by now). In fact, I'd be happy either way, as long as the borders remained consistent with the natural geographical terrain. As it turns out, if I were a freelance cartographer in the RPG, I'd probably be 100% in favor of the idea because over time, it would surely generate a need for more maps!

 

[disorganizer]

You are partly right there, and partly not.

1) i never said the provinces in total benefit of the effect. but imagine we have only 2 provinces which are able to feel the effect at all. we would then end up with 2 highly effective provinces and 3 others maybe which nobody wants because they have a 75% corruption or even higher in all cities.
2) i believe relocation of the capitol will not happen. the shields used for that would be a great loss which we can not afford.
3) in fact, i can also live with both. the poll is just to streamline the border discussion and to cut down on different proposals. if we get this info poll done, we dont need to discuss it any more or we can delete all proposals which dont use it, depending on the outcome.
my main goal is to get the borders up fast, so with 20 proposals running up and down the discussion drain we will never get them ;-)

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by disorganizer
? nobody asked you 2 do that ;-)
i just carified the rules for forty that there is no rule saying a province must have at least 3 cities.

I know, but I wanted to clarify ahead of time, so no one would think that is why I am for this.

 

[Cyc]

I really don't like this poll Dis, now that I've read your reasoning. I will not be voting in it.

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by disorganizer
my main goal is to get the borders up fast, so with 20 proposals running up and down the discussion drain we will never get them ;-)

Agreed.

Of course, once we learn Map Making and start trading world maps with everyone, it will become much easier to draw up the borders. In the meantime, I say we narrow it down to two proposals (one with an independent capitol province, one without) and put it to the polls. That is unless, our fearless Domestic Leader has already resolved this matter for us...