Ingame Editor

DonQuiche · Nov 26, 2012

Hello everyone.

@VIP
I am sorry but, again, this is a mac problem and I never used civ5 on macs, and never used Apple's products for more than one hours in my whole lifetime. I cannot help you at all on this matter. Reading the faq for mac again and posting your questions there is your best hope.

Regarding your offer to beta-test, I appreciate that. Unfortunately, my mods are pretty stable those days and unless new bug are identified I am done with civ5 modding. Besides my policy for beta testing has always been to just release them here, among the comments, and let everyone willing to test it doing so.

@Barcelonic

Barcelonic said:
Actually a little update: I had a problem whereby any land that I placed using IGE which wasn't on that hex before (ie, was water) would forever be cursed to not display farms properly - you just get the grid and no luscious green fertile farmland

Wth? I would like to see a screenshot if you have one please. That being said, wasn't there a river's extremity on the edge? IGE allows you to place rivers that the 3D engine cannot render properly (it can only deals with rivers starting on land and ending on a water hex, with the corresponding flow direction) and it can results in glitches.

Regarding the crashes I am pleased to learn that IGE had nothing to do with it. And, no, if a mod is disabled, removing it won't change anything aside of wasting your time. Finally, when it comes to performances, note that IGE is just sleeping when it's closed and does not affect your performances (ok, well, maybe 1ns to 10ns per second actually but I think anyone can deal with that).

@Bilyak
Welcome on CivFanatics and thank you for coming here to report this bug.

IGE had a bug like this in the past and it could be that it resurfaced with the new patch. Or maybe it was still there but could now only occur in very rare circumstances and no one reported it before. The gist of it is this: IGE allows you to do any change to the terrain, yet the civ5's terrain's mesh generator has does not support some combinations (those ones being unknown of course, it's funnier like that for me).

Initially the problem arose from ocean tiles right next to land tiles (without a coastal tile between them). I then made IGE prevent people from doing things like that. But what could it be now? Do you remember which changes you made? Without this information there is nothing I can reasonably do in my spare time aside of waiting for new reports.

Finally, it could also just be a civ5 bug.

PS: Did anyone who gave a look at the dll's source know whether the terrrain's mesh generation is in there? I guess it is actually in the exe but who knows...

Barcelonic · Nov 26, 2012

DonQuiche said:
@Barcelonic

Wth? I would like to see a screenshot if you have one please. That being said, wasn't there a river's extremity on the edge? IGE allows you to place rivers that the 3D engine cannot render properly (it can only deals with rivers starting on land and ending on a water hex, with the corresponding flow direction) and it can results in glitches.

Regarding the crashes I am pleased to learn that IGE had nothing to do with it. And, no, if a mod is disabled, removing it won't change anything aside of wasting your time. Finally, when it comes to performances, note that IGE is just sleeping when it's closed and does not affect your performances (ok, well, maybe 1ns to 10ns per second actually but I think anyone can deal with that).

Thanks Don

I will try to get you a screenshot today. The rivers on the last screenshot were onces which were part of a complete river until i put coast over the land it was on, leaving only a few hexes which still have a small part each, I didn't put the rivers in but i did break them up.

I will try again and see if this is related to river-hexes only and i think i remember how to remove those so it would be all good.

Ill get back to you.

As for the crashes i fear i may have just too many mods enabled. Tis frustrating cus Steam keep putting new ones on my screen each time i log into my Library lol.

It has recently crashed once or twice mid-move without any saving/loading gooing on so if i can't get that sorted I won't be able to play any more so i'll go through my mods and weed out any ones i dont need and get back to you if theres somerhthing else

Thanks man peace

UPDATE: I just tried it now and it didn't do the same thing, which got me to thinking and i think i've figured out the conflict. I use a mod called Civ5 Farm Mod or something like that. I've been using it for a while now and it basically enables you to build farms on desert tiles with no fresh water access. I've been using it for so long i take it for granted.

In the other games where i had this problem i believe the issue is only happening with all desert tiles (with and without fresh water access). Thus i'm assuming the conflict is with that mod.
I appreciate you're not a graphics guy but a programmer so I won't ask what to do tis just frustrating to have to make the choice between the two.

Thaks for all your help DonQ

bilyak · Nov 26, 2012

DonQuiche said:
Hello everyone.

@VIP
I am sorry but, again, this is a mac problem and I never used civ5 on macs, and never used Apple's products for more than one hours in my whole lifetime. I cannot help you at all on this matter. Reading the faq for mac again and posting your questions there is your best hope.

Regarding your offer to beta-test, I appreciate that. Unfortunately, my mods are pretty stable those days and unless new bug are identified I am done with civ5 modding. Besides my policy for beta testing has always been to just release them here, among the comments, and let everyone willing to test it doing so.

@Bilyak
Welcome on CivFanatics and thank you for coming here to report this bug.

IGE had a bug like this in the past and it could be that it resurfaced with the new patch. Or maybe it was still there but could now only occur in very rare circumstances and no one reported it before. The gist of it is this: IGE allows you to do any change to the terrain, yet the civ5's terrain's mesh generator has does not support some combinations (those ones being unknown of course, it's funnier like that for me).

Initially the problem arose from ocean tiles right next to land tiles (without a coastal tile between them). I then made IGE prevent people from doing things like that. But what could it be now? Do you remember which changes you made? Without this information there is nothing I can reasonably do in my spare time aside of waiting for new reports.

Finally, it could also just be a civ5 bug.

PS: Did anyone who gave a look at the dll's source know whether the terrrain's mesh generation is in there? I guess it is actually in the exe but who knows...

Thanks for the response! When you mentioned the bugs with terrain modification, I thought maybe that was it, because I did change some tiles, e.g., added resources, roads etc. I started a new game and the only changes I made were to add resources to a tile, but only those that would be found on that particular terrain. I still encountered the same bug when trying to reload. Do you think it would help if i started a new game, made one change, saved, and then reload it to see if i can localize the problem?

DonQuiche · Nov 26, 2012

bilyak said:
Thanks for the response! When you mentioned the bugs with terrain modification, I thought maybe that was it, because I did change some tiles, e.g., added resources, roads etc. I started a new game and the only changes I made were to add resources to a tile, but only those that would be found on that particular terrain. I still encountered the same bug when trying to reload. Do you think it would help if i started a new game, made one change, saved, and then reload it to see if i can localize the problem?

From what you just said, I no longer think it could be IGE: for the start resources do not affect the mesh generation and the old bug I was talking about was always related to mesh generation. Second of all, if it was a resurrection of that bug it would be pretty rare and it would be very unlikely that you would encounter it twice in a row (otherwise I would have hundreds of reports about it already). Finally since the game successes at rendering those changes at the moment you perform them, it would be strange if it were to cause problems on reloading (resources, unlike terrain, are always displayed at the moment you spawn them).

Maybe what you encounter is just the random civ5 bug that prevents in-game reloads? As I said in previous posts, this bug sometimes arises when you enable new mods (any mod, it's not caused by the mod you enabled) and it makes your game crashes or hangs up when you load a savegame while being in-game. Here is how to test it: go back to the main menu, disable all mods, and try to reload the save that was previously causing your game to hang. If your game loads fine, it's not an IGE bug. Now try to reload it while still being in-game: if civ5 does not hang up now that you do not have any mod enabled, then it's the bug I just talked about and the workaround is to remove some mods.

DonQuiche · Nov 26, 2012

Barcelonic said:
UPDATE: I just tried it now and it didn't do the same thing, which got me to thinking and i think i've figured out the conflict. I use a mod called Civ5 Farm Mod or something like that. I've been using it for a while now and it basically enables you to build farms on desert tiles with no fresh water access. I've been using it for so long i take it for granted.

In the other games where i had this problem i believe the issue is only happening with all desert tiles (with and without fresh water access). Thus i'm assuming the conflict is with that mod.
I appreciate you're not a graphics guy but a programmer so I won't ask what to do tis just frustrating to have to make the choice between the two.

Thaks for all your help DonQ

I just saw your update, thank you for providing this feedback. Again, I am glad to learn that it's not an IGE bug (woot, one more dodged bug, I am looking up to the "fifty in a row" achievement).

That being said, I would still be interested to give a look at the conflicting mod. I guess it's not a graphics problem and maybe I can do something about it. But "civ5 farm mod" only increases the grasslands' yields, it does not allow you to build them on desert tiles (I just downloaded it to check).

VIP · Nov 26, 2012

Alright thanks DonQuiche, my last quesstion this may be the reason , is it compadable with civ5 campian edition and if it isn't could you make it compadible?

Barcelonic · Nov 26, 2012

DonQuiche said:
I just saw your update, thank you for providing this feedback. Again, I am glad to learn that it's not an IGE bug (woot, one more dodged bug, I am looking up to the "fifty in a row" achievement).

That being said, I would still be interested to give a look at the conflicting mod. I guess it's not a graphics problem and maybe I can do something about it. But "civ5 farm mod" only increases the grasslands' yields, it does not allow you to build them on desert tiles (I just downloaded it to check).

Well thanks for taking the time. After i posted the update i noticed the same and recalled that i remember having 2 or 3 farm mods relating to farms. I checked my list and saw only two - neither were the one affecting desert tiles like i described. Then i checked again and still not there. I can't remember its name but I can tell you the other farm mod I had was 'Terrace Farms - Yield Fix' which has long proven to work fine with Civ5 Farm Mod.

So the trouble now is i can't remember the name of that mod, and oddly it doesn't seem to be listed - but i'm still able to build farms on desert tiles no problem. Have you heard of any active mods being hidden from the list? Perhaps i should re-read all mods and see if it was a secondary thing of another mod.
Some possibly related mods i use:

Resource - Mint Include Copper (quite new)
Amer-Indian Resources (new)
Krakatoa Fix (new)

Im off to bed now but tomorrow I'll take another look for more clues.
Sorry about the false lead. There's two farm mods I've been using nearly as long as the game itself and one is the desert tiles one and one is Civ5 Farm Mod. The Terrace Farms one i could do without although i've never had problems with it and i don't think thats related here except inasmuch as its farm-related.

DonQuiche · Nov 27, 2012

@VIP
It is compatible with all editions of the game. it is even compatible with most out-of-date pirate versions of the game, as long as they include the very first patches that Firaxis published two years ago.

The problem is not about IGE, it is about using mods on mac. I suggest you read the Mac FAQ again. Now I wonder if the reasons behind the mac version being hampered is technical. I think it is actually related to the Mac Store's holy policies the Great Guru wrote. Welcome in a closed environment, this is the future of electronics (unless our representatives finally move their butts and free the consumers).

@Barcelonic
Now that I think about it, being able to build farms on desert tiles is a vanilla feature (as long as they do have access to water). ^^
So this explains why you cannot find the mod for it.

If you're still willing to try to find the incompatible mod, please go ahead. If you can give me the mod's name, I think I will be able to resolve this conflict. Now I just want to ask you to confirm it before please, I do not have enough time to test N mods at the moment.

Barcelonic · Nov 27, 2012

DonQuiche said:
@Barcelonic
Now that I think about it, being able to build farms on desert tiles is a vanilla feature (as long as they do have access to water). ^^
So this explains why you cannot find the mod for it.

If you're still willing to try to find the incompatible mod, please go ahead. If you can give me the mod's name, I think I will be able to resolve this conflict. Now I just want to ask you to confirm it before please, I do not have enough time to test N mods at the moment.

OK I've done some more digging and i'm befuddled lol.

None of my mods allow me to build farms on Desert tiles. I could have sworn one did because although the Vanilla allows farms next to fresh water on desert tiles, I was under the impression Vanilla didn't let you build farms on desert tiles with no fresh water but -- apparently it does.

I just started a new game to test it out and went through Vanilla setup - no mods whatsoever - and I could actually build farms on Desert tiles.

Now that i think about it i must have been confused because you still only get 1 food per desert farm, whereas with the Civ5 Farm Mod you obviously get more.
So sorry about that.

Now though i'm totallt at a loss to explain the farm graphic thing. I've got a screenshot but to be honest as far as using IGE goes, unless i can stop my game crashing all the time its best i use it sparingly methinks because thats a much bigger problem than the farm thing.

If i get the crashes to stop then i'll post a screen and revisit the farm issue with you but honestly i think the inability to see my changes on the fly is what hurts this the most i think.

I have another idea though using Reseed. If i create a map on Worldbuilder first then load it in-game should i be able to reseed the same map to get a better starting position? Is that possible or does it only work with mapscripts?

Thanks again man

Martock · Nov 28, 2012

I've seen the issue with farms not rendering correctly quite a bit. i've mostly seen it though on lands I modified with IGE by either creating the land, or more commonly, adding the Wheat resource to the area. It's not one I can repeat on demand though...it just seems to happen randomly.

DonQuiche · Nov 28, 2012

Thanks to both of you for the update. Unfortunately if this bug happens to you randomly and not because of another mod, this is likely to be a civ5 bug and I am then powerless against it. That being said, I suggest you both update your graphic drivers, it could be a driver's bug after all.

Barcelonic said:
but to be honest as far as using IGE goes, unless i can stop my game crashing all the time its best i use it sparingly methinks because thats a much bigger problem than the farm thing.

But does your game crash at the moment you use IGE ir not? If the crashes happen when IGE is closed, then it has nothing to do with them. Now, again, against crashes, remember to update your drivers and send the crash reports when Windows ask you to do so, many of those crashes are related to bugs in the graphic card's drivers.

If i get the crashes to stop then i'll post a screen and revisit the farm issue with you but honestly i think the inability to see my changes on the fly is what hurts this the most i think.

Remember you can use the strategic view: the one provided by IGE is updated after any change.

I have another idea though using Reseed. If i create a map on Worldbuilder first then load it in-game should i be able to reseed the same map to get a better starting position? Is that possible or does it only work with mapscripts?

If it's not a map script but rather a map file, then Reseed can clean it (reset scores, cities, units, etc) but it does not shuffle positions. However there is a mod dedicated to positions' shuffling on the workshop. I can't remember its name but I am pretty sure it was created by Whoward69.

Barcelonic · Nov 28, 2012

DonQuiche said:
Thanks to both of you for the update. Unfortunately if this bug happens to you randomly and not because of another mod, this is likely to be a civ5 bug and I am then powerless against it. That being said, I suggest you both update your graphic drivers, it could be a driver's bug after all.

But does your game crash at the moment you use IGE ir not? If the crashes happen when IGE is closed, then it has nothing to do with them. Now, again, against crashes, remember to update your drivers and send the crash reports when Windows ask you to do so, many of those crashes are related to bugs in the graphic card's drivers.

Remember you can use the strategic view: the one provided by IGE is updated after any change.

If it's not a map script but rather a map file, then Reseed can clean it (reset scores, cities, units, etc) but it does not shuffle positions. However there is a mod dedicated to positions' shuffling on the workshop. I can't remember its name but I am pretty sure it was created by Whoward69.

Thanks again

I don't htink the crashes are IGE related because they are happening even after disablng IGE & Reseed. Every now and again the game frezzes randomly but rarely. 90% of these crashes i've been having are occurring when I click 'Main Menu' or 'Load Game' from the in-game menu.
But the weird thing is that until i used IGE i wasn't having this problem. I'm guessing there's a reason why it's happening but im not very good at figuring these things out tbh. Another odd change lately was how when i press F12 for screenshots it loads a game. I believe it used to do this once before and i did something to stop it but its happening again. Weird, I've sorted that though now by changing screenshot key to F11.

Thanks for the mod recommendation I believe i may have seen it before actually. I'm about to jump nto WorldBuilder and try to make a proper map from scratch. I think Ill start off with a small one.

Anyone happen to know the official map sizes for each size (eg AAAxBB) ?

Thanks again btw Don, i wish i could help a bit more.

DonQuiche · Nov 28, 2012

Barcelonic said:
But the weird thing is that until i used IGE i wasn't having this problem.

Yep, this is the civ5 bug I talked about before: sometimes after you added a mod (any mod), civ5 crashes/hangs up anytime you are trying to reload a save while being in-game. Disabling some mods fixes the problem (which mods? It's random and varies from one user to another). Maybe you could try to uninstall all mods, quit civ5, flush the cache and reinstall them all but I do not know whether it could make a difference.

Thanks again btw Don, i wish i could help a bit more.

You're welcome and no need to worry about it.

Barcelonic · Nov 28, 2012

Thanks Don i might give that a go next time i use IGE. How do i flush the cache?

If i moved the contents of the mods folder and then launched the game and went into mods and there were none listed and went ahead and setup a game then quit, and then i put the mod files back and laucnh the game and repeat would this have the same effect do you think?

How do i flush the cache though i 've no idea lol, i think i did it once before but can't remember how

DonQuiche · Nov 28, 2012

To flush the cache, see post #2, section 1.2.

Now just moving the mods folder would not work if it was a matter of files corruption in one of your mod but it seems unlikely anyway, so you may just not bother. Corruption in the cache may be more relevant but, again, it's more like a desperate idea rather than something grounded on something.

Barcelonic · Nov 29, 2012

DonQuiche said:
To flush the cache, see post #2, section 1.2.

Now just moving the mods folder would not work if it was a matter of files corruption in one of your mod but it seems unlikely anyway, so you may just not bother. Corruption in the cache may be more relevant but, again, it's more like a desperate idea rather than something grounded on something.

Thanks

Just flushed the cache now and cleaned up my mods folder a bit. Will test tomorrow and if you don't hear from me assume all went well !

Thanks again

mike20599 · Nov 29, 2012

This thing is awesome! It's even better than the World Builder. Great work!

XiaoHu · Dec 4, 2012

Great mod! Just experiencing an issue with GS and RA's. I have G&K's. When I use a GS, I get one free tech instead of 6-8 turns of bulbs. Basically, I get a free tech no matter what the cost. RA's seem to give very little output. Not sure the numbers, but it makes me wonder if this mod interfers with the RA mechanic? ANyway, just putting that out there.

DonQuiche · Dec 4, 2012

Hello.

No, IGE does not interfere at all with RA. Now if you use it to grant yourself free techs and such, I won't swear that there is no civ5 bug that could then affect RA and GS after that. That being said, such a bug would be unlikely imho.

Craig_Sutter · Dec 4, 2012

Hello... love the mod and am finding it useful in testing my mods out.

I've run into a bug... perhaps it arose from the last patch. I attempt to switch leaders to view the tech progress for other civilizations. After I select the new leader, Civ V shuts down.

Here is the portion of the log I believe to be relevant...

Spoiler :

I hope this helps. The problem occurs each time I try to change leaders to view the civ technologies... in this case, it was in reaction to a player entering the medieval era... I wanted to see who it was and how the other civs were doing in relation to this first civ into the new era.

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Emperor

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Chieftain

Emperor

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Emperor

Chieftain

Emperor

Chieftain

Chieftain

Chieftain

Emperor

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