Initial thoughts

Finally got Steam to play nice and my expansion is d/l and I'm in.

Thought I'd try out Venice first as it is the biggest change.

WTH!!

How do you play as Venice? I'm on a peninsula that my territory cuts off from my closest opponents (China, Spain & Netherlands), all within 10 hexes of me and 5 from each other.

The land cut off from them is to my SE and is full of Luxuries. To my SW is an island with 4 City-States that is near the pole and doesn't appear to have much of anything.

How exactly am I supposed to get all those resources if a large number of CSs are resource poor and I can't found new cities?

This is proving to be a bigger stretch of gameplay change then I imagined.
 
You can still conquer cities, right?

Well yeah. But in the mean time my 3 neighbours are bickering amongst themselves and all this land to my SE is just sitting there.

And gaining territory by conquest may prove tricky when you only have 1 city + puppets to generate units. Also what if I wanted to go for a win without starting a fight?

Its not that I'm disliking the concept of Venice but it does take some time to get your head around it.
 
Venice must conquer. Diplomatic victory doesn't synergize with their UU, tourism needs a wide empire for all the museums, and I don't think they could keep up in science without taking cities.
 
I just bought out a couple of city states as Venice to get more cities. Towards the end I stopped buying city states and instead became Allies with them all to get the Diplomatic Victory.

Denmark had a couple thousand gold and did not prevent me from buying all the city-state votes for the Diplomatic Victory.
 
Some initial thoughts:

So on my first playthrough with the shoshone I have to say I love almost all of the changes!

Playing peacefully is so much more engaging now with the new mechanics....anyway, gushing praise over, on to some more specific thoughts:

1. All the citystates seemed to be grouped on islands away from all main civs (continents+). Is this a function of the mapscript...or maybe just bad luck...but it was all CS and all civs so I dont think so. Can this be changed in the communitas mapscript? It seems unrealistic.

2. No one attacked me throughout the game...although I was tucked away a bit. However two civs were defeated by Renaissance and the other continent had almost constant war. It seems many people feel that the AI is too peaceful and I found that on my island but the other....total chaos! lol.

3. As far as yields go as others have said gold is scarce early game, which I think could be fixed by earlier trading posts. However I wouldn't want to boost starting gold in general because I liked that I went for farm/mine like I usually do to grow super tall cities and it actually had consequences! I was really suffering for gold for a large part of my game due to this and it made me think that I should have had a few cities more for gold production. It was making me make tough choices! :)

4. Again as others have said....policies need work.

5. I think most of the army changes from before could be brought right over and that would be fine.

6. I miss the tougher barbarians and felt they stopped becoming an issue too soon, especially in the ocean. It would require a larger navy before making the switch from land to sea trading instead of land trading being only done for such a short time.

7. Shoshone are STRONG early game. Fast land grab/picking your upgrades from goody huts really boosts you out of the gate. As I've said elsewhere I think moving the land UA to Russia or USA and giving them a different UA thats maybe not quite so early game would help ballance them out while also being more flavorful on those civs IMHO.

....Will post again for my responses to the late game as I'm not completely finished yet.
 
1. All the citystates seemed to be grouped on islands away from all main civs (continents+). Is this a function of the mapscript...or maybe just bad luck...but it was all CS and all civs so I dont think so. Can this be changed in the communitas mapscript? It seems unrealistic.
Mapscript I think. I'm playing continents+ too and I find this. THey aten't all on islands, but most are. This means they don't get conquered, and diplomatic victory is a bit too easy, and there aren't many decent island colony sites because they're taken up by CSes already.

2. No one attacked me throughout the game...although I was tucked away a bit. However two civs were defeated by Renaissance and the other continent had almost constant war. It seems many people feel that the AI is too peaceful and I found that on my island but the other....total chaos! lol.
I've had the Huns in both my games and they went conquest-happy, but those were pretty much the only wars that happened all game other than those instigated by me (really, you're going to build 10 wonders in a single city right next to me, sniping several that I was constructing and you except me to *not* conquer you? I'm looking at you Arabia....).
 
Mapscript I think. I'm playing continents+ too and I find this. THey aten't all on islands, but most are. This means they don't get conquered, and diplomatic victory is a bit too easy, and there aren't many decent island colony sites because they're taken up by CSes already.

Thal already reduced the placement of CS's on islands - which is typical for the vanilla Continents plus mapscript - in the GEM version of this map.

If he hasn't done that for the new map already, it should be done. I know I once created a whole bunch of C+ maps with the modding tools and the effect is really weird - it's the main flaw of the otherwise great vanilla C+ map.



Regarding aggresion levels - I think it might have something to do with less aggression from close borders, but I need to investigate further to really make a judgement.
 
Alright finally got enough games under my belt to at least make some initial opinions:

1) Rivers: Even without the extra yields, rivers are still good. They provide me extra food, 25% more trade, access to the watermill (which whether it needs a tweak or not is still a building i can't get otherwise), and hydroplant later on. Now it is completely true that i only build farms on rivers right now...but i don't think the river itself is too weak.

2) Gold/Trade Routes: Early gold is scarce but not terribly so. Trade routes right now are a lot of fun, i'm enjoying their inclusion into the game. Am i right that there is no way to switch a trade route until its time ran out? I found that to be a strategic aspect, sometime i would want to hold a route to get distance improvement so i could broker a new route.

I'm also in the camp that likes the base game where production is primary and gold is not mean for a lot of building/unit buying. So i really don't want to mess with the economy too much until a lot of experience has been gathered.

3) World Congress: This so far has been a lot of fun for me. I played Indonesia one game, and the congress would sometimes try to ban my special luxuries. Netmeg immoral, outrageous!:) In all my games the congress gave me a decent level of interaction without being overbearing. Most of the measures that came up were interesting enough for me to care about.

4) Tourism/Great Works: I have tried a tourism game, and so far i'm just not getting it. Tourism seems very fiddly to me right now. I can move great works around....so? I can swap works with another civ....so?

Tourism seems so low in the early game that it serves no purpose...its only late game that it makes a dent and then it do so in strange ways to me.

I will say that specialists got a big boost, because now i get great people all the time with the new mechanics and have plenty of spots for specialists.

I'll need to a try a few more games here, but it seems like so many mecahnics have been added around this concept and i'm not feeling the payoff.

5) Military/Strategic Resources: Strategic resources aren't strategic. 3 games in i was routinely getting 14 iron, 10 horses, 13 coal...etc etc, and that's on a medium map.

As such i only build strategic melee units....when i build melee units at all. Ranged units do seem significantly better than melee right now.

Naval balance also fell to ranged ships, but at least they normally cost strategic resources, so in theory i should be building them sparingly.

6) Policies: Now that the cultural victory has been moved, policy balance is a little different. For example, one of traditions "traditional" strengths is how fast you could pick up the tree. Between the +3 culture opener and the free culture buildings, you can mow through that tree in short order and pick up one of your keys for a culture victory. That option is not as useful now, so you have to weigh the tree more on its individual components.

I actually like the narrowing of world wonders on the policies so far. I think the narrower competition gives you a chance at some wonders you normally just can't get.

I will say i don't mind piety early in the game but pushing the tree early is pointless. Many of the benefits requires buildings like temples, and i can fly through the policy much quicker than the tech tree. So i can pick a few policies from the tree to help me, but i really can't go deep. I actually have problem with tradition, i hate that the policy that gives you early culture buildings is early in the tree and a prereq for the good stuff.

7) Early game production vs tech. on a normal speed setting, i know people mentioned that city prod seems a little quicker. Might be but i didn't really notice. I will say that i find early game my tech choices don't matter that much. By the time i've got my early scout/worker a going and actually start building some buildings i've already got several techs under my belt. I feel that the techs add buildings much quicker than i can build them.

That changes in teh midgame where new stuff to build does start to run a bit dry. But i really do not think we need more early game buildings.
 
1) Rivers: Even without the extra yields, rivers are still good. They provide me extra food, 25% more trade, access to the watermill (which whether it needs a tweak or not is still a building i can't get otherwise), and hydroplant later on. Now it is completely true that i only build farms on rivers right now...but i don't think the river itself is too weak.
I think the main problem is that you only farm river tiles and that riverside bonus resources aren't really bonus. Adding fresh water bonuses onto other tiles doesn't really boost rivers much directly, but it allows for more player choice on which improvements to buidl.
 
@rhammer640
The unmodded Continents Plus places 100% of citystates in "uninhabited regions" that are usually offshore islands. The mods override this to 50% (in vem, gem, cep).
 
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