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Initial thoughts

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by cakes, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. pietro1990

    pietro1990 Prince

    Oct 3, 2016
    This game sucks thanxs firaxis for screwing up diplomacy you had such a promising options Ai agenda's but you destroyed diplomacy by making warmonger penalty super high.

    i stopped playing this gamer after 4 hours its annoying and not fun. because of the diplomacy issue
  2. alaric1112

    alaric1112 Chieftain

    Oct 1, 2010
    PA U.S.A.
    I love the game so far but I'm early on about 90 turns as Rome just building my cities and killing barbs.
    All of the sudden France and Sumer DOW me I'm not sure why?
    Also I wish you could zoom out a little more but overall this game looks very promising I think I may play this longer than 5.
    P.S. France is close to me but not that close Sumer is across the sea.
  3. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

    Dec 3, 2012
    I started my first game, about 200 turns in. I'm playing Aztecs on King, continents, all standard. Starting location was ok, but no mountains. Second city got Yosemite, where I was able to place a +5 holy site, but I guess I was too slow to get the second city and holy site going and missed getting a religion. I farmed a city state for builders, which Germany ended up conquering 5 turns later. Ended up in war with Germany, Sumeria, and Russia all at once; everyone on my continent, and I'm not entirely sure why as I was trying to play nice. Russia was too far to be any bother. I razed one of Germany's cities, which he re-settled a few turns later. Razed it again. I also liberated the city state, but since I declared war on it once upon a time, even though I'm now suzerain for liberating it, I can't send envoys to it. Sumeria sent a ton of war carts, but they all kind of danced around. Some attacked a city once or twice, then left. Their attack forces were impressive, but they never did anything with them. The nice thing, even though I mostly just played defensive wars, I got a whole lot of builders out of it all. After that, the entire world disliked me and I haven't been able to become friendly with anyone, so I've mostly been ignoring diplomacy.

    The game is pretty fun and I'm enjoying it. Trying to manage the terrain in advance has proven challenging, but interesting. Expanding early was difficult with barbs, then never ending wars. By turn 150 I had 6 cities up and there is no more space for cities near my empire, which I guess works out well for the Aztecs. At this point I'm in the industrial era and have surpassed the AI civs. I should just cruise to a science victory.

    As for complaints, I'm not very fond of the UI, particularly the city screens. I hate that the build menu for districts do not show the possible adjacency bonuses. I have to open the tech tree and find the tech and mouseover the district there to see what gives adjacency bonuses. I did have one freeze, which I think was a bug. The game worked fine, but I could not click on anything. Everything was frozen, except the mouse and the music. Had to ctrl-alt-del and reload. Speaking of which, load times are long even on a SSD drive. Turn times are a little long. Unit movements feel slow/sluggish, especially boats. I'm disappointed with diplomacy. I tried hard to play nice and befriend some neighbors but they just weren't having that. They all dislike me, though there are no warmonger penalties listed. Also wants up with the "bad first impression" negative modifier? It's hard to be friendly with anyone when you have that penalty and different government penalty right when meeting them. Even with a delegation, the negatives out weigh the positives, meaning you start diplomacy in a hole.
  4. Matte979

    Matte979 Jedi Master

    Oct 29, 2001
    Quick notes.

    1. Multiple starts on Emperor and Epic speed, 3 times got just outgunned and out settled quickly as I did not expand fast enough, quick expansion seem to be the key.

    Switch to King way to easy.. :) the extra things at start on emperor seem to help the AI a lot.

    2. New game Emperor again as England on Epic. Lots of fun with Spain and Religion war. Spain went straight for my holy city and took out my religion with 2 missionaries and an Apostle, I had not religious defense, then I had to build temple in my city far away to get back, started the Inquisition which cleaned it up.

    Was then surprised attacked by Spain and a large army took one of my cities, fought my way back and asked him when I had destroyed half his army to give the city back I he made peace and returned it.

    He then decided to go after my City States and took two of them before I could mount a defense had to go all military and holy war on him to be able to push him back and liberate the cities.

    Overall game plays great on Epic if you ignore the notification of medieval time 100AD. :)

    Main Pros:

    Diplomacy system is much better (But need some tweaking and balancing)
    Cities - Love how cities are built.
    Music - very good music
    Religion - Works much more logical now
    Social Policy / Tech and Eureka, way more thinking now.

    Main Cons:

    UI - needs some work. More work on making Info clear like trades etc.
  5. cassembler

    cassembler typically in screensaver mode

    Dec 17, 2001
    Barbs ate my lunch early, but I was able to (barely) cover. Then the Russians came at me with a strong wave and could have easily taken a great, under-defended city... No dice, they were very timid on the approach and I could pick them off pretty easy. I'm on a clear path to science victory unless something comes up... Prince, first non-tutorial game.

    No ICS penalties I see, short of needing defense??? ... ??? What am I missing?
  6. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

    Mar 18, 2015
    Los Angeles
    OK, I've played about 8 hours now. Still only in the atomic age of my first game! Things aren't moving too fast. But I'm having fun.

    I'm playing as Spain on Emperor difficulty.

    What I like:

    1. The Policy Cards
    These are a home run. They combine the best of Civ V's social policies--a huge breadth of options--with the flexibility and strategic richness of Civ IV's civics. Really great. I'm glad Firaxis didn't go with milquetoast bonuses--these things make a huge difference. Doubled adjacency bonuses or +100% military unit production is no joke. These are game-changers and it's really critical which ones you pick. I know I'm going to spend a lot of time thinking about how to best use them.

    2. The District System
    Another huge success. Placing districts is really fun, pillaging districts adds a great new dimension to war. Cities are far more specialized, unique, and interesting than they were in Civ V.

    3. More Paths For A Civ To Develop
    For the first time ever in Civ, I don't feel like I have to go all-out for science to be successful. Culture (and even Faith to some extent) are completely viable alternatives. This is great.

    4. The Basis Of A Better Diplomacy System
    I wouldn't call the diplomacy a triumph, because there are a lot of adjustments to be made and kinks to be worked out. The warmonger penalties, in particular, are out of control. But I like the idea of Casus Belli (even if the implementation leaves much to be desired), and I like that you can actually see the modifiers. Hidden agendas aren't nearly as bad as I feared, because they are actually not hidden--if the AI is upset because of the hidden agenda, they'll tell you why. There's the framework for a really rich diplomatic system here.

    5. The AI Can Move And Shoot

    I saw it myself! Incredible.

    6. Wide Play Is Back
    I just love this. Once again I can make the sprawling, multi-continent empires that are (in my view) the whole point of Civ. No longer does the game needlessly punish me. When my Scout discovered a rich and unpopulated island in the Renaissance Era, I didn't stare at the land wistfully and wish there wasn't a science penalty (as I would have in Civ 5). I bought a Settler and a Builder and sent them over! Awesome.

    What I don't like:

    1. The Warmonger Penalties Are Absurd
    I conquered a couple Japanese cities in the Medieval Era. Little did I know that this would completely shut down diplomacy for the rest of the game. I got immediately denounced by every other Civ--even though I declared a Formal War--and they are still denouncing me, four eras later. Agendas and trade and the like don't even matter anymore. That one war was enough to earn me every AI's permanent hatred. That's not fun. Cut the warmonger penalty to something like one-quarter of what it currently is, or better yet, get rid of it altogether.

    2. Eurekas Are Overpowered
    I think 50% is way too much. They just completely dictate tech choices. Researching an unboosted tech is so terribly inefficient that I feel like I'm constantly being railroaded. 25% would be more reasonable, and would offer a more interesting trade-off between maximizing your resources and getting the specific techs you want the most.

    3. Production Is Too Slow, Techs Are Too Fast
    I think building districts and wonders takes just a little bit too long. On the other hand, I feel like I'm zipping through the tech and civic trees. To some extent this is mitigated by the relative dearth of unit upgrades (so your units usually don't go obsolete really quickly, like they did in Civ V), but still, this feels like it just hasn't been balanced quite right.

    4. Ranged Units Are Overpowered

    While Civ VI made some noble attempts to nerf ranged units (no more +1 range promotions, they don't exert ZOC), the fact is that archers are still devastating in human hands. Groups of them will effortlessly pick off any contemporary AI army. This kind of undermines the point of the Encampment district and strategic resources generally--why bother with that stuff when resourceless and cheap archers are so devastating?

    Ranged units were way too good in Civ V, and they're still way too good in Civ VI. I'd like a nerf here.

    5. The AI Doesn't Expand Enough, And Doesn't Protect Its Settlers
    Now that wide play is viable again, I want that dramatic, headlong race for land that Civ IV used to have. But the AI seems content to stay put with 3-5 cities well into the Renaissance. To make matters worse, when the AI does send out Settlers, half the time it doesn't escort them. Combine that with the fact that captured Settlers stay Settlers (a bad design choice, imo), and you've got total brokenness. The AI should be hardcoded to always protect its Settlers. There's an escort feature now! The AI should use it.

    6. The Game Is Too Easy
    I don't think I've played very well. I screwed up in quite a few of my district placements, worked too many unimproved tiles for far too long, and have taken basically zero advantage of any of Spain's uniques (I'm not going for a religious victory). Despite that, I am easily doubling the score of any AI. I'm first by a wide margin in both Culture and Science. I feel like an Emperor AI should put up a better fight. I'm having fun designing cities and building wonders, but I want some challenge, too, and I haven't really gotten that.

    Things I haven't made up my mind about include the housing/amenities system and religious combat. My initial reaction is that I like the former and dislike the latter, but I'll need a few more games to know for sure.

    Overall, you'll notice that I heartily approve of most of the major design decisions (like the district and policy card systems). Most of my complaints could be fixed by just adjusting a few values here and there (except perhaps for my concerns about the game's difficulty). So I'm very optimistic about Civ VI. It's already a good game, and it's got the potential to be a great one.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
    footslogger, Ikael, DocRock and 2 others like this.
  7. DSveno

    DSveno Chieftain

    Oct 4, 2013
    How about stop throwing the tantrum like a kid? I've noticed in every thread whenever someone posted a positive impression you would repeat the same thing like a broken record. People already got it that you hate the game and want a passive AI, then you could just lower the difficulty. At this point I actually think it's your job to whine this game to be honest. That is in no way a constructive criticism.
    Toastypie and George Abitbol like this.
  8. Meiz

    Meiz Emperor

    Mar 15, 2007
    This was pretty irritating until I realized that you can right click the district to open civilopedia. However this seems to work just for unbuilt districts.
  9. TruthfulCake

    TruthfulCake Prince

    Feb 13, 2016
    Just won another game, this time a proper science victory, on Prince difficulty. Played as England, spawned in a continent I shared only with Yerevan. Neighboring continents were full of expansionists, with Egypt being the most egregious. So I decided to build up my little empire and win a peaceful science game.

    Not being able to interact with most civs until late-mid game caused me to lag on the science, since I didn't get many Eureka boosts. But I find that espionage actually balances this out, as I started stealing from the AI Rome who obviously benefited from the bonuses. I had to maneuver a bit with my spies, but I ended up having well-promoted spies stealing boosts regularly, which gave me an equivalent of Eureka boosts. Basically, with the current espionage system, catching up when you're behind in science is much easier compared to CiV.

    The housing/amenities system is excellent in more ways than one. It serves as a check for runaway civs - I would normally have the potential to just eclipse everyone if I ever spawn on a continent alone in CiV. It is very effective due to the double-layered check, and at the same time it's less punishing since the effect is not global, and the sick difference between 0 and -1 back in CiV is now gone. Strategic placing of the districts seem to help a lot with giving empire-wide amenities (esp with the Colosseum wonder), and city planning must factor in where to place the neighborhood once it's unlocked, lest the city growth stagnate forever late game. Once again, I think it's a really effective check for runaways.

    Will probably try King next. Once I figured everything out with culture and religious victories there, I will return to Emperor difficulty and see how warfare goes.
    sonicmyst likes this.
  10. DocRock

    DocRock Prince

    Sep 25, 2010
    I agree to most of the initial thoughts here and I still think why games get released that when after 2 days of playing most of the players agree to certain aspects (like UI, Fog of War).

    So some additional thoughts:

    - I think they generally did a poor job on giving you necessary information. I still have only a vague idea how to set up my cities to get most of the advantages from adjacent districts, I miss critical events every turn and I still do not understand why the city screen does not state what I just finished building. Seriously I cannot remember the build queue of 8+ cities.

    - I'm not sold on the housing limit. For example, I founded a city next to a natural wonders that doubles the yield of all zones next to it. My city had a huge food bonus, I think it was +15? But after a few turns, it just couldn't grow anymore because the production wasn't good and it took me forever to build a granary. Several hours later, the city is still as big as the other ones because of the limit even though it must like the land of milk and honey there.

    - several times my neighbours declared war on me without any reason. To make it worse, following the DOW, nothing happened. Then sometimes they send 3-5 warriors that all got butchered by 2 archers. There is definetely room for improvement here.
  11. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

    Mar 18, 2015
    Los Angeles
    Low production cities are pretty weak in Civ VI. You can't easily grow a huge city and gold-purchase science buildings like you could in Civ VI. Each city has to build its districts itself--and without those, it won't generate many useful yields, nor will it be able to even grow that tall due to housing limitations. (You can rush buy granaries and sewers which could help a little.) Although I guess you could prop it up with some production-heavy trade routes until it can build the essential districts, and then purchase the buildings for the districts.

    The Aztecs, with their builders rushing districts, might have an easier time settling low-production, high-food spots. I'd like to try them out soon.
  12. phoinix

    phoinix Warlord

    Feb 7, 2008
    You hit the nail on the head. Technologies and culture are researched way too fast and unlock a lot of things which unfortunately you dont have time to built in their proper time because of few hammers. This leads to the game becoming out of sync. For example in the Renaissance era you unlock civics which require 2 or 3 specialty districts when most of your cities have barely even one (except for the capital).

    Also I'd like to add that normal border expansion seems quiet slow, especially now that land is so important. I found myself having to buy a lot of tiles which becomes expensive relatively fast. Maybe many smaller and more tightly packed cities is better?
  13. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

    Mar 18, 2015
    Los Angeles
    Totally agree. Border expansion was painfully slow for me, even though my Culture output has been quite high. I've spent far, far more gold on tiles than on anything else.

    It would be nice to have a policy card that speeds up border growth (in addition to the current one which reduces the cost of buying tiles). A Renaissance-era policy card that makes newly founded cities start with 3-5 extra tiles would be good, too.

    A lot of tightly packed cities does indeed seem to be a very good strategy. It reduces the need to buy tiles and it helps you get adjacency bonuses for having districts next to other districts. Plus it maximizes the area of effect of stuff like factories and the Colosseum. You need some amenities to make this work, but if you've got them (or can build the Colosseum), it's the way to go.
  14. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

    Jan 27, 2013
    Las Vegas
    I have only built one wonder which was Stonehenge. I watched the animation. It made me think of a commercial for Forge of Empires. This is not my sort of thing but I can understand it is probably the current trend. I would prefer to see some actual video of the real Stonehenge or even a video of the Spoof about Stonehenge with Chevy Chase in European Vacation.
  15. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Nov 14, 2006
    Las Vegas
    Still in the middle of my first game, work schedule may prevent me from finishing until Sunday. Epic games take a while. Turn times are getting agonizing. AI's like Sychtia and all the city states have far too many units running around really clogging up the turn times.
    No more standard size maps for me. I'll go to small next game.

    Interface is bad, I'm giving it a D. This isn't my official review, just first impressions. Gameplay is good, I give it a B+. Balance issues are very bad, D-. Graphics B. I love most of the graphics, but some things are hard to see. And while I like the artistic value of the fog of war, it really is hard to see. Thankfully I don't have much fog of war withing my empire anymore. I can't stand it.

    I loved the intro video. Best part of the game so far. But that's only good once or twice.

    My economy is in shambles, even on the second easiest difficulty level. Or I should say it was in shambles. Now I have multiple trade routes it is recovered. I only was allowed 1 trade route for the longest time. And I had to use that trade route just to build roads. I hate not being able to build my own roads. It's a waste of a trade route to build roads with it. Yes I know about engineers, and I can build one now, but I have so many other things to build...
  16. LegioCorvus

    LegioCorvus Prince

    Aug 9, 2009
    Old Civ4 player making a brief return for this game. I might hang around if this game really gets its hooks into me, unlike the last game.
    (I am glad that so many people did enjoy Civ5, just in case anyone feels slighted by me saying that. Just wasn't my thing.)

    Thoughts so far:
    • Fog of war is a mess. Interesting idea; bad implementation. There needs to be a greater contrast to tell what is explore territory and unexplored.
    • Continuing that thought, the mini-map is barely useful. It tells me nothing at a glance.
    • Districts have made the leap from Endless Legend. Still testing their viability. They seem to trend towards mid-game city specialization, in regards to their price and opportunity costs.
    • City spam appears strong early game. Will also need to test this.
    • Military expansion also has some strength early game. Again, need to test.
    • The science boosts are a little easy to get. The current speed of the tech tree feels fast, and I'm unsure if it's because of the boosts and/or the cost of techs.
    • I would like for their to be more charts and a better city screen. Some of the city options cover this, but for some reason I can't use the Escape key to leave them (it opens the menu instead).
    • Not having an option for WASD movement controls after this many games and the prevalence in the strategy games just seems like a huge oversight. Then again, so does the current state of the mini-map

    All that said, I'm liking it so far. It took me ~100 hours before I realized that Civ5 wasn't my thing (again - glad that so many people do like it), so it will be a couple weeks before I can finalize my thoughts on the game, but I'm already seeing some potential. Now we'll see if it has longevity.
  17. pietro1990

    pietro1990 Prince

    Oct 3, 2016
    Actually i thinx the AI is to passive wich means diplomacy doesn't mean anything The AI doesn't atack a lot of renaissance and later era's wich means if you anger them you don't have consequences thats my problem

    warmonger penalty for just declaring war olso changes the AI in a bad way. It olso makes them angry at eachother in the late game.

    I play at emperor and don't thin the game is to hard just not a lot of fun at diplomacy side and most important late game's seem a lot boring compared to civ 5 and 4 the Ai just sits there.

    Olso some Ai won't stop if you are a warmonger and take cities and atack they get angry at you but don't declare war in the late game they just sit there.

    This is why brave new world had better mechanic at some point in the game if you captured a lot of cities you got get declared on by a lot of people
  18. Groff

    Groff Prince

    Mar 31, 2010
    I found a guide on how to use WASD for camera movement:

  19. UnknownHuman

    UnknownHuman Chieftain

    Sep 5, 2016
    • Cannot see the yields of districts unlike other tiles, but instead you need to have your mouse on it to see the yields.
    • Cannot see where the natural border expansion goes and how many turns are left until the next border growth.
    • Great People are too few, so much that past the atomic era most of them are gone.
    • Nukes cannot be moved from silos, though it might be a bug.
    • Cannot see citizens during the AIs turn/loading, which is annoying since I can’t plan moving them during the rather long AIs’ turn.
    • Cannot raze districts, particularly annoying if you go for a Great Prophet but miss all of them, meaning that you’ll a district rather useless for the rest of the game.
    Otherwise nothing that have already been said.
  20. itkovian1128

    itkovian1128 Chieftain

    Sep 27, 2016
    After 2 days of playing I can write this:

    So far, my favorite producer strategy was Paradox, Firaxis after Civ 5 and BE was blacklisted after Xcom 2 returned confidence in Civ 6 throws on his knees.

    1. Graphics on max settings, beautiful and quite charming, but less clear on the lower fortunately i have GTX 980 :).

    2. The degree of dependence and complications. We have a standard production but also for faith and gold respectively we obtain the 3 viable production pathway. In Civ 5, in theory it was so but in practice not feasible.

    4. 2 learning path. Changeable regimes through the card system.

    5. The war supposedly like civ 5 but tweaked through a new system of generals and the introduction of larger compounds armies , new move order and different range for range unit.

    6. AI solid could have been a lepij but the prime minister as the premiere ok.After Batlle Royale had much greater Fear about AI.

    7. Civ 6 in the whole world creates the cortex is sensible, curious and want to explore it. The last time I had such an impression with EU4 but Civ 6 beating them on the head.

    8. For ost 6 years, only two times I felt like a kid enjoying the new game was The Witcher III and Civilization was 6.

    9. You can thank that Firaxis decided to risk and did such a good and complex strategy. Although I have the impression that for many players without much experience pain threshold is too high :).

    THX Firaxis old palyer :).

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