Inside Soren's Presentation (Some Real Gems!)

[wotan321]

I suspect the term "civics" may mean that there are no hard and fast 'governments' to choose from, but you play with sliders of various traits of the the present govts, and get the pros and cons of the choices you make.

 

[erickcid]

I think the desire is to expand the game while also making it easier, not simply as in reducing its depth. In fact, I would imagine the opposite. Consider that anything you can do, so can the AI at some level. As this is the case the same game can feel differently dependent on what decisions you as the player choose to make vs those you give off to the AI or in some cases, do not even know exist. This allows anyone to pick up the game and have a good time, while micro-managers and reality buffs can tailor the settings to excrutiating minutiae. Civ would be different games to different people as their play style could be accomodated. A good example of this type of thinking is Master of Orion 3, where the user could literally do nothing the entire length of the game. The AI would build the entire empire. You could give no direction, general direction, or micro-manage. Although Master of Orion 3 suffered from an early/incomplete release, I love it. What was clearly attempted, and largely done is wonderful. I suspect Civ 4 intends to incorporate some of that thinking.

 

[dowski]

I am *really* excited about the Python support. For those of you who aren't familiar with the language, check out the python website. I am not a computer scientist or anything but I have been able to write useful applications in python. Opening Civ up to python is an *excellent* idea...

dowski

 

[Beam]

No one noticed the message in the speaker notes on page 45?

Soren apparently is the lead designer for Civ IV! At least he is claiming that position.

 

[Joey_Ramone]

At least from the presentation Soren sounds like he knows what he's doing. Not changing the game too much is key.

I'm not a big computer person, but when I first bought Civ I I was hooked. When Civ II came out, I rushed to buy and was not disapointed, it was even better than the first. When Civilization: Call To Power came out I mistakenly though that it was CIV III, it was a terrible game, they took away too many elements, and I got sick of it very soon.

When I discovered that there was a real Civ III, I bought that and again I thought it improved on the previous games. More diplomacy plus the ability to claim territory made the game much better but they didn't take away any of the good things. Hopefully Civ IV will go the Sid Meier Civ way and not the Call To Power way.

 

[shirleyrocks]

I'm going to have to cast a vote for the "Civ won't jump genres" as well. I mean, at it's very soul, Civ is a turn-based strategy game. If you morph the franchise into an RTS game, for example, then we'll never actually get to see Civ4...only Rise of Nations 2. And I can't imagine Firaxis would want to begin playing defense like that...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Oh, I'd have to say that Civ would SUCK as an RTS game, and suck even MORE as a 'First Person Shooter' ! That said, I think that one element that would help to alleviate some of the 'flaws' of a TBS might be to divide players turns up into a 'movement' phase and a 'combat' phase-just a thought.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[-proletarian-]

Religion and civics sounds great.

As for as I understand it, civics is the word used to refer to the study of governmental concepts and processes. It infers that civIV will have a more interesting and involved government system, which should go hand in hand with the addition of religion to create a more rich and varied simulation, just as the addition of culture and resources did for civIII over it's predecessor.

"What you see is what you get". Sounds like more and more elements will be represented graphically on-screen instead of being shown in sub-menus. A continuous, changing world on your screen. Sounds great.

I can't wait.

 

[AngryGerbil]

Civ's success lies in the fact that it is turn based. I could name a billion RTS games (most of which suck) and only a handful of turn based games (Civ being the king). I'd laugh if they ever diverted from this path, it'd be suicide. I think they know this, and I think there is nothing to worry about in that regard.

And as a side note, turn based or RTS, I have no desire to see the game become 3D. The more they focus on eye candy, the worse off we all are. This applies to not just Civ, but all strategy games. There is no need for a strategy game to be 3D. Tactical games? Yes. Strategy? No.

 

[playshogi]

The more they focus on eye candy, the worse off we all are.

I agree. Unfortunately, some of the most vocal complaints about C3C were from the people who couldn't see their "Statue of Zeus" in the city view. Not to mention, the tears shed over the missing "wonder movies". I'm assuming, 3D view has something to do with the city view.

 

[Jon Shafer]

How is it that no one saw this before now...

 

[socralynnek]

I agree. Unfortunately, some of the most vocal complaints about C3C were from the people who couldn't see their "Statue of Zeus" in the city view. Not to mention, the tears shed over the missing "wonder movies". I'm assuming, 3D view has something to do with the city view.

From the presentation, I think they know, what they should focus on.
They need some eye candy that makes a little Wow!-Effect when you first play, but I think, most of their work will actually be done on the game.

And they're right with focussing on a few "killer improvements", if they add too much, then it may get really hard to keep the game balanced (CTPII for example had a lot of nice features but the AI wasn't really able to handle it all, even worse than the CivIII AI)

 

[Philips beard]

Civ's success lies in the fact that it is turn based. I could name a billion RTS games (most of which suck) and only a handful of turn based games (Civ being the king). I'd laugh if they ever diverted from this path, it'd be suicide. I think they know this, and I think there is nothing to worry about in that regard.

And as a side note, turn based or RTS, I have no desire to see the game become 3D. The more they focus on eye candy, the worse off we all are. This applies to not just Civ, but all strategy games. There is no need for a strategy game to be 3D. Tactical games? Yes. Strategy? No.

Yeah, well spoken!!!

 

[warpstorm]

How is it that no one saw this before now...

The previous versions (which have been pointed out in at least a half dozen other threads) didn't have the notes. To get those you had to be there or have a recording of his presentation.

 

[Portuguese]

What really confuses me is the slide #59: "Drop the unfun legacy" (pollution, rioting, maintenance, corruption/waste) and the "continuous, immersive 3-D-world"

I hope, they translate "drop" with improve massively.
And about the 3d-aspects, I'm still very unsure until I've seen the first examples.

I'm very affraid of that too!!!

I hope they don'y just cut that

But in the overall, this just proves we are in good hands and CIV4 will be done by pro's who know what they are up to. Nothing like to start with a good old SWOT analysis

 

[MarineCorps]

3) Regarding the "Official" Fan Suggestion List:

200,000 words is about 600 pages…
By comparison, the New Testament is about 175,000 words…
.

1) Mod Making features (my heart danced after reading this......):

Fan content: we are keeping all game data in xml which will ensure that almost nothing will be hard-coded. Further, we are integrating Python into the code-base so that the more algorithmic parts of the game (map generation, combat, triggers/events, AI, etc.) can be scripted by the modding community.

This I look forward to finding out more about. Through I wonder if they will keep the same format for unit animations.

 

[warpstorm]

I imagine that the unit animations will be stored in the 3D format that their engine uses (hopefully something that can be easily accessed from 3DS MAx).

 

[Duke_of_BOOM!]

I don't feel so confident...

- Continuous, immersive 3D world (what-you-see-is-what-you-get)
Mmm eyecandy. I expect their to be a row by the gamers who have not upgraded hardware since '96 and complain anytime something exceeds their antiquated systems.

- Drop unfun legacy (pollution, rioting, maintenance, corruption/waste)
Pollution should be very reduced... but what is the incentive to being eco-friendly?
Rioting... makes sense, when was the last time a city rioted for a year.
Maintenance... might be a good thing if buildings and economics was more abstracted, might be a bad thing if the game is oversimplified.
Corruption/waste... this makes me very apprehensive, does this mean that there will be nothing to stop the snowball effect?

- New killer features (religion, civics)

My #1 request; An AI that can beat me (sometimes) without cheating, is what I am looking forward to.

 

[Neomega]

Civ's success lies in the fact that it is turn based. I could name a billion RTS games (most of which suck) and only a handful of turn based games (Civ being the king). I'd laugh if they ever diverted from this path, it'd be suicide. I think they know this, and I think there is nothing to worry about in that regard.

And as a side note, turn based or RTS, I have no desire to see the game become 3D. The more they focus on eye candy, the worse off we all are. This applies to not just Civ, but all strategy games. There is no need for a strategy game to be 3D. Tactical games? Yes. Strategy? No.

Hmm... 3d is the wave of the future. It is not difficult, especially in a TBS, where camera control is not necessarily an essential victory function.

In fact, I would propose that technology has progressed to the point where 3d art may actually [/i]be easier to use and implement than continuing with 2d art.

Ever play a MUD? Or a text based empire game. Deny it all you want, but eye candy is of the utmost importance. A small minority of people still play civ II... but c'mon, it's just sliding icons!

 

[Jon Shafer]

The previous versions (which have been pointed out in at least a half dozen other threads) didn't have the notes. To get those you had to be there or have a recording of his presentation.

Figures. I looked through the entire presentation and didn't see anything when I looked those months ago...