International Space Station - Ideas?

Dom Pedro II

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I was thinking about adding the International Space Station as a wonder/project that would be something that every civilization would be able to contribute to complete the greater whole.

I would like to make it the precursor to the Alpha Centauri project which I think just comes way, way too early as it is now... by their logic, we should've already launched the Alpha Centauri mission and the truth is it's just not feasible at this time... there's a lot more work left to do.

Anyway, I thought I'd ask for some ideas/suggestions:
  1. What conditions should require it's construction? Techs, buildings, relations between civs...
  2. Who should be able to build it? It's unlikely that several very hostile countries are going to work together on this, so what should be the requirements for participation?
  3. What should it do? Bonuses, diplomatic changes, global modifiers
  4. How can this be implemented? The game will require some modifications either in the SDK or Python depending on how sophisticated it becomes, so what changes will need to be made to implement the idea (based on your suggestions)?
Alright, let's see what we get :)

- DPII
 
I like this idea... doubly so if you could include it as part of a whole new Future Era (similar to the Genetic Era mod). I'd love to see the Space Race Victory be a little harder than it currently is. Anyway, maybe these suggestions could help:

What conditions should require it's construction? Techs, buildings, relations between civs...
Perhaps a Spaceport building could be implemented. In Warlords, you could even make them country-specific just for fun, even if there's no real bonus for them (ie, NASA for America, Roskosmos for Russia, JAXA for Japan... though that could cause trouble with the European countries). Then tie the Spaceport to a UN-like Vote that will allow a country to be willing to spend time\production\money in their Spaceport city, or decide against it. For example, if they vote for it, the city with the Spaceport would begin to build a project called "Space Station Component", which would be locked in the city's build queue until completion. Also, a National Wonder (with the Spaceport building as a pre-requisite) could also be implemented... the Space Shuttle Program, which would allow for +25% Space Station Component production.

I'd suggest a new tech\wonder tree as follows:
Rocketry & Satellites -> Allows the Spaceport to be built
Spaceport allows for the Apollo Program
Apollo Program allows for the ISS vote (any country that develops the Apollo program can choose to initiate the ISS vote with other countries that have Spaceports, or chose not to)
Completion of the ISS allows for another national wonder: the Mission to Mars (since, logically, we'll go there long before we ever go to Alpha Centauri... maybe tie a happiness bonus to it)
Completion of the Mission to Mars allows for Spaceship Components to be built (with currently required techs)

Alternatively, you could allow the Mission to Mars to be built directly after the Apollo Program as well, with the ISS providing a substantial production bonus (like +50%) to it. I say this because the ISS didn't necissarily HAVE to be built to get to Mars (and beyond), but it has taught us a lot about prolonged space flight and building things in space (as the Alpha Centauri Spacecraft is).

Who should be able to build it? It's unlikely that several very hostile countries are going to work together on this, so what should be the requirements for participation?
I'd say that two countries would need to have a specific, relatively high positive diplomatic relationship (For instance, an AI would only vote to join the program if they have a +5 or so attitude toward the country that initiated the vote). Have a set number of generic Space Station Components that are divided among the countries that vote to join (or you could choose individual ISS components and tie them to prerequisite techs if you're really ambitious).

What should it do? Bonuses, diplomatic changes, global modifiers
How can this be implemented?
1. Bonuses - not really sure if any bonuses could be used logically
2. Diplomatic Changes - Increased positive attitudes among the participating countries (ie, +3 = Working together has brought our countries closer!) upon completion. You could also allow for something other than the Space Station Component to be put to the top of the queue in the city with the Spaceport (using the Ctrl key as usual), allowing for production or something else, but the delay comes at a temporary cost in diplomacy (ie, -1 = Your procrastination is delaying our mutual effort!, and make it -2 or even -3 for the country that initiated the vote). If one country does that too often (especially the one that voted to build it in the first place), then another country may chose to scrap the effort altogether, leaving the burden of the remaining space station components on the remaining countries.
3. Global Modifier - It could provide a boost to science for each country that participates, which increases incrementally with each component added (say +5% per component), and maybe a set boost to the spaceport city's economy (say +10%) to account for space tourism. (I know this doesn't exactly fit with NASA or the ESA, but since private spaceports are now being built for that purpose, why not?)

The game will require some modifications either in the SDK or Python depending on how sophisticated it becomes, so what changes will need to be made to implement the idea (based on your suggestions)?
Unfortunately, I'm not good enough with SDK editing or Python programming to answer that one exactly :( But, I've seen much more complicated ideas done in other mods, so hopefully I've babbled on in-depth enough to at least provide you usable ideas. :)
 
Hmm "international"? - if it's world wonder and only one nation could produce it better idea would be just "MIR Station" - i was wondering why there's apollo mission an there's no first fly into space and builduing first station in space - probably the reason is that the game is made in usa.

You can make alpha station but for balance i would love to see mir station wich was obvious jump for space science
and both apollo mission and mir station should be world wonder in civ vanilla :)
 
asioasioasio said:
Hmm "international"? - if it's world wonder and only one nation could produce it better idea would be just "MIR Station"

Well, maybe I will add the Mir... but the point of the ISS would be that it wouldn't just be a world wonder... or rather it would be a world wonder in a new definition of the word.... it wouldn't be one building but rather like a series of linked world wonders that would be built by different civilizations. And once all the components are assembled, it'd give a boost to science, etc. to all the civilizations that have contributed to it.

You can make alpha station but for balance i would love to see mir station wich was obvious jump for space science
and both apollo mission and mir station should be world wonder in civ vanilla :)

Well, if I changed the Apollo Program to a world wonder, then I'd have to provide some new generic space agency national wonder since the Apollo Program is currently a prerequisite to building the Alpha Centauri spaceship.


War_Lord:

Your ideas sound good... and I am indeed planning to add a Mission to Mars project since, yes, as you said, we'll go there before we ever get to Alpha Centauri.

The ISS should speed up the Alpha Centauri and Mission to Mars production times also because the trip out of the pull of earth's gravity is a completely unnecessary trip for a completed spaceship to make... it would be better to be assembled in space and launched from space.

It would certainly be interesting to see competing ISS projects between two different camps (since the AI usually divides itself into two camps by the end of the game)... sort of NATO vs. the Warsaw Pact or something.. but I guess the individual Alpha Centauri project sort of represents those large international rivalries as well.
 
I've mentioned it before elsewhere, I really don't like the degree to which the space race is simplified in-game. I can understand the need to make things somewhat vague and representative in older time periods, but the modern age is a pain to play through, and a better space race would really improve it.

Thus, I'd say (and may have said before...)

1. Race to the Moon
2. Race to Mars
3. Race to Alpha C.

With "Cooperative" projects for each of them (ISS for the second race, for instance) which speed up the race for all participants with some costs. So, for International Space Station, I think it should be handled thusly: Civ A discovers Satellites (or whichever tech is appropriate) and receives a pop-up..."Propose International Space Station?". Opting to do so costs a flat amount of gold and unlocks a new national project, "ISS Module". It also sends a pop-up on the next turn to every civ that Civ A knows who already has a prereq tech (I'll say rocketry for this example) asking "Civ A Proposes ISS! Agree to contribute to project?". Agreeing costs a flat amount of gold, and unlocks the same national project, "ISS Module". Each ISS Module that is completed decreases the costs for all participating Civs for Space Race components. Actually building an ISS Module requires 1)That the Apollo Program be built [see way below] 2)That an appropriate national wonder be built [also see way below].

For Civ A, declining the initial offer 'passes the baton' to the next civ to discover the given tech. For other civs, declining the offer costs nothing, but results in a mild diplomatic penalty with Civ A (and potentially other civs which have/will agree). For diplomatic requirements for actually being "offered" the chance to join the project, I don't think any conditions apart from "has contact with Civ A, is not at war with Civ A" should exist. Instead, just tell the AI to always Decline the offer if the current diplo is at or below value X (with a tiny variation of 1-2 points each game), and to accept if it is above value X.

As for actually building the modules: individual nations aren't obligated to complete them at all, nor is there any diplomatic penalty for failing to do so. The benefit to building them is the decrease in cost, the penalty for building them is that other civs also get the decrease. Just agreeing to "contribute" to the project by forfeiting X amount of gold (removed from game, not given to other civs) is enough to avoid the diplo malus.

Other items, like "Space Agency", "Space Port", "Shuttle Program", "Space Station" and so on should be national wonders used as dependencies or bonuses for the space race. Apollo Program should be set up as a World Wonder that "wins" the first race (to the moon), giving unique bonuses to the following races and being worth a lot more in terms of score compared to other wonders.
Building the Space Elevator should need a few things...1)*on* the equator 2) Coastal 3)Space Station. I could also see the Space Elevator being used as an "International" project like the ISS, but it would function by having the "discovering" civ build it in one city, and then asking other civs for donations of material (adds free production) or finance (cheapens the hurry cost). The end result would 'split' the production bonuses evenly between all civs who contributed who are *not* currently at war with the building civ.
 
Competing ISS projects would be interesting... You could have different votes come up at different times.

First one to build the Spaceport could get a vote asking "Propose International Space Station?" (yes/no)
If the first chooses to propose it, then the Second to build the Spaceport gets a choice: "Join [Civ] in building the Space Station", "Propose competing Space Station", or "Abstain"
If the second chooses to build a competing space station, subsequent civs could get a prompt like "Join [CivA]", "Join [CivB]", or "Abstain"

Of course, that makes the idea even more complicated, but also makes the Space Race more interesting :)
 
I like the idea of War_Lord :) this could give a lot of fun to space race
 
Are you going to incorperate the Canada Arm in this wonder? I know the Canada Arm isn't on the International Space Station, But it had a huge role in the making of the ISS.

Maybe having the Canada Arm as one of the first pojects you need to build before the construction of the ISS. Just a thought.

Check here for the info on the Canada Arm


225px-Canada_arm.jpg



Thanks and good luck :D
Splinter13
 
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