IQ differences and racism

[Japher]

The rest you told is IMO more connected with social class, environment and upbringing rather then color.

I'm just saying that someone of a specific color is more likely to have a specific social class, environment, and upbringing. Thus, by saying that something is connected to social class, et al you might as well be saying "color".

 

[elfangor801]

The rest you told is IMO more connected with social class, environment and upbringing rather then color. Therefore I consider your statements racist.

Yes, but social class, environment, and upbringing are all related to race. Blacks in modern American society stuck themselves in a social class, and they have been/will pay for it. Environment? Personally our inner city is pretty nice . Upbringing? TV didn't cause those the kids in ISS to get there. Their parent's lack of caring about their kids did. And if I walk into the dean's office and 4 out of 5 kids in there are black when the school is ten percent black, what does that show?

There are obviously exceptions but there are fewer and fewer everyday as main stream black society buys into the "It's not my fault, it's the cracker's fault" stuff. Along with rap, which really isn't helping much. But it can't all be blamed on music because I listening to rap too, but I don't act on it.

 

[E-Raser]

I'm just saying that someone of a specific color is more likely to have a specific social class, environment, and upbringing. Thus, by saying that something is connected to social class, et al you might as well be saying "color".

Yes you might, nevertheless exactly this is racism!

Just because blacks are still not completly exapted by society so they simply do not have the same rights and possiblilies. This is the way the coocie crumbles and not you silly racist ideas.

 

[elfangor801]

And here's an IQ test for you. Probably not the most scientific one floating around but it was the only one I could get off hand.

Click

 

[E-Raser]

And here's an IQ test for you. Probably not the most scientific one floating around but it was the only one I could get off hand.

http://web.tickle.com/tests/uiq/authorize/register.jsp?url=/tests/uiq/index.jsp

This link does'nt work for me, honestly.

edit: BTW I have quite a huge hosts file, many crap servers given my local IP.
Doubleclicks don't get me for example.

 

[elfangor801]

My bad try again

 

[E-Raser]

Thank you for your interest in this Tickle service. Unfortunately, we cannot permit you access to this service. Our apologies for any inconvenience.

They hate me
Anyway I'll not register for this, sorry.

 

[The Fjonis]

Interesting thread!! I like the discussion.

I never knew that there was such a great IQ difference between races. I'd like to know, before commenting more on it, whether there's a wide consensus about the data he uses here (mean of black US citizens is 85, for example). From what I've heard, such large deviations aren't possible for such large samples.

 

[wit>trope]

This IQ tests aren't at all representative. Some questions are for example much easier to answer for a person from a certain cultural group as for someone aside this group.

But tests that don't even use language but just use geometric figures show the same kinds of results.

 

[wit>trope]

Interesting thread!! I like the discussion.

I never knew that there was such a great IQ difference between races. I'd like to know, before commenting more on it, whether there's a wide consensus about the data he uses here (mean of black US citizens is 85, for example). From what I've heard, such large deviations aren't possible for such large samples.

I don't think anyone disputes the data. Some people have suggested that the reason why blacks in the US have lower IQ is because of the white genes from race mixing. But that makes no sense since the "pure" or more "pure" blacks in Africa have an even lower average IQ.

Remeber these are just the averages. There are plenty of blacks who are smarter than plenty of whites and plenty of whites who are dumber than plenty of blacks.

 

[E-Raser]

But tests that don't even use language but just use geometric figures show the same kinds of results.

But the way how to understand those figures is also thought in school. So if one prefers selling crack around the corner during the math lession it doesn't mean he's less intelligent neccessarily.
It means he earns a bit meanwhile.
In fact I doubt that there is a way to measure the 'IQ' at all, much more impossible to measue it independently from education.
Not yet Kamerad not yet...

 

[Yom]

I don't think anyone disputes the data. Some people have suggested that the reason why blacks in the US have lower IQ is because of the white genes from race mixing. But that makes no sense since the "pure" or more "pure" blacks in Africa have an even lower average IQ.

Remeber these are just the averages. There are plenty of blacks who are smarter than plenty of whites and plenty of whites who are dumber than plenty of blacks.

Do you have any proof? I've seen claims made abound in the thread and the articles, but no links to scientific studies. The lower IQ of blacks in the U.S. is easily explained by cultural and economic factors, but I have a hard time believing the same is true for Africa. Since there is less opportunity for higher education (but not the cultural hindrances), it would not surprise me if the average were a little lower than whites, but I doubt it until I see some hard evidence.

The first article only has links regarding intelligence in general, and the second does not have a single link, making his claims completely unsubstantiated for now.

 

[Akka]

Yes, but a good education (At least at the higher levels) is usually obtainable if you have the motivation to get it.

It just fall back on what I said in the first answer of this post : success is much more related to emotionnal drive than intelligence.

 

[wit>trope]

Yom, a lot of the stuff is documented by studies, research published in the book The Bell Curve.

 

[wit>trope]

But the way how to understand those figures is also thought in school. So if one prefers selling crack around the corner during the math lession it doesn't mean he's less intelligent neccessarily.
It means he earns a bit meanwhile.
In fact I doubt that there is a way to measure the 'IQ' at all, much more impossible to measue it independently from education.
Not yet Kamerad not yet...

Are you talking about if IQ is determined by genetics or environment? It is well-established that differences in individual IQ is partly influenced by genetics. I believe it is also non-controversial that the influence from genetics is greater than the influence from nurture. This was proved from studies of identical twins raised in the same family and identical twins raised by different families, etc.

But while differences in individual IQ are largely determined by genetics, it's been shown that differences in group average IQ are not necessarily so. But reasonable scientists would acknowledge that the differences talked about here are unlikely to be explained totally by environmental factors.

 

[Yom]

Yom, a lot of the stuff is documented by studies, research published in the book The Bell Curve.

I don't doubt that some if it is documented, but nowhere did I see anything showing that a) the IQ level of black Americans and Africans was the same (as in there were studies showing a lower African IQ) or b) the differences could not be explained by socioeconomic and cultural factors.

 

[Akka]

It is well-established that differences in individual IQ is partly influenced by genetics.

It's most probably true that it's "partly", but it being "marginal" or "substancial" is subject to heavy debates.

I believe it is also non-controversial that the influence from genetics is greater than the influence from nurture.

No, on the contrary.
There is a big trend in the US that says it's the case, but the truth is that it's the exact opposite that has been widely established by serious scientists. Nurture has an overwhelmingly larger effect than nature (except in extreme cases, like trisomics and the like).

This was proved from studies of identical twins raised in the same family and identical twins raised by different families, etc.

Yes, and the result was that these twins ended with the average IQ of their adopting family.

 

[wit>trope]

Akka, you have your facts wrong about the twins.

"Results from these studies indicate that the IQ scores of identical twins raised apart are highly similar—nearly as similar as those of identical twins raised together."

From Encarta.

 

[E-Raser]

Isn't Encarta from Microsoft?
Well, than in this case I am convinced.
Coloured are simply inferiour to the white Arian race!
Right so, dude?
Do you also wear white capuchons and burn crosses in the gardens?

 

[wit>trope]

I don't doubt that some if it is documented, but nowhere did I see anything showing that a) the IQ level of black Americans and Africans was the same (as in there were studies showing a lower African IQ) or b) the differences could not be explained by socioeconomic and cultural factors.

In The Bell Curve, it is documented that the difference in IQ for East Asians versus whites is present not just when considering East Asians in the US but also when considering East Asians in East Asia. I don't know if The Bell Curve documents the finding about blacks, but if it doesn't then I'm sure it is documented by some other published research.