Irritable Toku


Jul 31, 2007
I've never played around with having a pet dog (and, naturally, now that I'm considering it Monty no longer shows up in every single one of my games like he used to).

So I'm left with Toku. I've heard he makes a wonderful puppy but... how do you get him willing to begin with!? He always starts off as cautious but won't trade, won't sign OBs, nothin! Even some tech gifts don't help.

Maybe I should try making Ragnar my pet and sic him on Toku, but they seem to be the best of pals almost from the start.
Toku is notoriously isolationist. I hear if you share his religion and run Mercantilism for a long time plus do a few tech gifts he lightens up a little. Normally I kill him before he gets Samurai if possible or just leave him till gunpowder. Or ignore him he's pretty slow at teching.
The best pet dogs are the ones that will stay loyal and not bite you on teh backside.

Monty and Shaka make the worse. Theya re completely unreliable and Shaka is plain dangerous once he gets going.

Ragnar and Ghengis are 2 of the best. Ragnar you need to stay at heritary rule. Ghengis you have to tribute him and feed him techs (so he remains useful). Both you have to be willing to join in any fight.

Toku I have gotten to work as a dog once or twice, usually through the common religion route.

I tried using Bouduca as an attack dog once but whe always gives me the phrase "We have enough on our hands"

Alex, Catherine and Napolean may work but will usually backstab you in the end.
And Honorable mention to Mansa Musa who apparently will do anything for a free tech or two!!!
Hmm, ok so maybe I'll try Ragnar and see how that goes. Maybe I can pry him out of Toku's camp anyway.

Yeah Catherine, Alex, and Roosevelt (I can't tell you how many times that fool has been Friendly the entire game only to turn around and punk me when he gets his little seals.) I don't trust as far as I can throw them as allies, much less dogs.

Thanks for the tips on buddying up to Rags and Genghis!
Oh GOD the last thing I want to be giving to Mansa is more techs!
Roosevelt is normally OK in my games, it's Washington I dislike when it comes to brash Americans. He always used to invade just as I was about to win a space or culture victory. I normally try and kill him if I see him these days.

My last game I bribed Bismarck into attacking Kublai to try and weaken the German navy before I could attack Kublai again (peace treaty), followed by a backstab of Bismarck. Bismarck had other ideas and Kublai became his vassal leaving me with 3 cities on Kublai's island with 1 workable tile each, forced peace, and unable to attack Kublai without having to face Bismarck's destroyers with my frigates. Bah. Bismarck went from 5th place (I was 4th) to top of the table then. He will get it next time I see him in a game.
Bismark's a grinning idiot. He always seems to do stuff like that. He's always everyone's best pal so he screws up diplomacy but then he'll turn around and do really bizarre stuff.

I actually like playing AS him and do well with him but playing against him is a pain.

edit: I loathe Roosevelt though. He did that with the whole Space Race thing, attacking me as I was well positioned for a win there with stacks of crap. The really sad part of it was that he cancelled the Defensive Pact we had with each other (that he asked for) to do it.

He goes first - every game.
I have been able to get Musa to suicide himself for techs. sort of hard for him to be a spaceship competitor when there are lots of Zulus in his lands, usualy trashing his towns.
I have been able to get Musa to suicide himself for techs. sort of hard for him to be a spaceship competitor when there are lots of Zulus in his lands, usualy trashing his towns.

That's awesome! Maybe I'll try that (yeah I have all the winners in this game: Roosevelt, Mansa, Toku, Bismark, Ragnar and Churchill.) Mansa IS right next to Toku...

So wait a sec (yeah this thread is getting off track but I can do that to my own thread, right?). If I bribe Mansa to attack Toku, then I attack Mansa myself for his capital which is right next to mine - crowded start.

I get the negative with Toku for bribing someone, do I still get a positive "Our military struggle brings us closer together"? Would it then be bad form to attack Toku directly after we mutually take out Mansa in which case the diplo modifiers wouldn't matter?
alex has been my most reliable, in i don't know how many games. he actually likes to fight and sends troops. takes over cities even, which may or may not be a good thing depending on your goals ... in my OCC games that works for me, since i can't take the cities. if there's a city i don't want him to have (a holy city, say), that one i'll go raze).

monty i haven't tried, i just don't like that guy and don't trust him. cathy is a certified backstabber at friendly if somebody else bribes her so i don't bother to try.

with toku early shared religion helps, and you can safely gift him techs quite generously once you know alphabet. he'll be behind enough that you'll have options. and you can be darned sure that he won't be trading them away to anybody, since his definition of a monopoly is "everybody that he knows, knows the tech, except for the guy who's asking for it in the trade". does not apply if he's actually friendly with the potential trader. he won't have much to trade with you, but he's not backstabbed once in those circumstances, so it's been worth it for me.

shaka i haven't had success with as an attack dog, but i gift him a tech as soon as i'm able to try to get on his good side. a tech that's worth something, not one everybody has, because he scares me. the permanoob is a permawuss.

now it's rambling time! one OCC game isabella declared on me when i was way low powerwise, uh oh. my religion had spread so i bribed the rest of the universe into helping me. overnight, WWI ... toku, alex, monty, bismarck, ramesses?, and somebody else. she was literally fighting everybody, not just little ole me. i razed double holy madrid so i that didn't lose my army'o'buddies, and they took care of the rest. that attack pack of war hounds was sooooooooo fun! hooray for political power. not reflected on the powergraph but boy howdy it's there and it counts! but that extreme was probably once in a lifetime circumstances.
This came up in one of my games. It's the only time it's ever happened. Only time. But he proved to be a worthless vassal anyway. :rolleyes: I say squash him out early if you can.


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Cyrus is the best as a vassal and a friend. Loyal and good in military and teching . If you help him you'll have a reliable friend for the rest of the game. I once had him as a friendly vassal and by the end of the game I had the biggest military and he had the second biggest.
I love Cyrus, he's definitely one of my favorites... until the end when you're the only 2 advanced civs in the game.
There was a thread once "I make Tokugowa friendly!". He still wasn't willing to trade world maps though.
I gave him one tech last night, made one trade deal, and then later he came to me and asked if he could be my prison b**ch. I said sure.
hey, don't swear.
Anyways, my pet dog is usually Isabella or Catherine. Though most try to take em out early, i leave em for a while since they're good techers, and if you share religion, they'll get all dove-eyed with you and gift you techs. And they're always willing to form a Permanent Alliance, which is also very good.
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