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[NFP] Is Civ 6 doomed?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Cagarustus, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Askia Muhammad

    Askia Muhammad Chieftain

    Aug 15, 2019
    These are the things that I think Civ 6 did better than Civ 5:

    Civ design (in terms of mechanical complexity and differentiation)
    Art and color (I’d rather play Civ 4 than Civ 5 graphically)

    Things I think Civ 5 did better:

    World Congress
    Feeling Immersive
    More diplomatic options

    This. Very much this. It would be nice if the AI could actually pose a threat militarily too but I’ll settle for any war actually occurring after the renaissance era
  2. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

    Dec 1, 2017
    Frankly, while I still think Civ 6 is the better game overall, if Civ 5 had Districts and limited Unit Stacking then I’d be playing Civ 5 just because it seems more complete and balanced overall.

    I really hope Civ 6 gets across the last few yards. It’s a good game, and has had four years of development. It would be a huge pity if NFP basically ends up as “that’s it” for Civ 6.
  3. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

    Aug 3, 2020
    I think this can also be viewed as a very good thing actually.
    Yes, most of the features are not grade A material.
    I do think this it is a good thing see that Firaxis is actively experimenting with stuff to see what sticks and what doesn't..
    The alternative would be the route of one of the major AAA game companies, who shun innovation like the plague in order to milk a franchise dead with micro transactions and loot boxes.

    Personally I used to love Blizzard games (like half the internet), but as of now I'm not buying a single title of their games ever again.
    There's a company that will happily milk a franchise to death, and who really hasn't come up with anything innovative over the last 10 years.
    Repeat the same old content, introduce cash shops and microtransactions for most of their games, throw some nice graphics on top, and there's Blizzard 2020 for you.

    Now I know you can't compare these two companies directly, and I know that civ is a franchise that they want to keep alive.
    That being said, I'm happy to at least see Firaxis try to come up with new stuff, even if it doesn't always work out too well.
  4. fantsu

    fantsu Prince

    May 24, 2009
    I dont get it. It has sold A LOT.
    The problems in civ VI are the same than on V, and IV: AI and late game (IV did the late game a bit better).
  5. Imaus

    Imaus King

    Sep 26, 2016
    I'm itching to buy the full pack on steam, so maybe I'll try it with VP then....
  6. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

    Jun 26, 2007
    It is no more doomed than Civ 5 was (and people were saying that was doomed as soon as it was released).

    Civ 6 is not perfect, but remains a lot of fun. It’s the only Civ game I have played for the last several years. It is clearly still very popular on Steam.

    In five years it will be remembered like every other Civ game. Some people will hate it, others will love it, most people will probably just be playing Civ 7.

    This all said I do hope they open it up more for modders, as Vox Populi has clearly helped Civ 5’s long term reputation.
  7. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Aug 19, 2012
    Well I tried to go back to Civ5 recently, because I agree very much with your general assessment of Civ6. However I must admit I had a hard time really enjoying it, I did feel some central elements from 6 like districts were missing, so I have to give 6 credit for that. Also I found some of the Vox Populi elements a bit confusing and (worse) that they conflicted with the personal mods and changes I used to use when playing Civ5 back in the day, so I ended up going back to 6 for now at least. I do hope Civ 7 will manage to find a balance point between the two iterations.
    8housesofelixir and KayAU like this.
  8. KayAU

    KayAU King

    Sep 1, 2014
    It is almost like an entirely new game, so I can understand the initial confusion, I had that as well. :) However, I started out at a lower difficulty with an open mind, and found it well worth the learning curve. I can't really play Civ 6 at all at the moment. I tried starting out a new game as Pericles, as I hadn't played Greece in a long time. I got a really interesting map and everything was going well, but...I can't play beyond the early exploration phase before being overwhelmed by indifference and boredom anymore.
    GrumboMumbo, Equilin and Myomoto like this.
  9. criZp

    criZp Emperor

    Jul 19, 2013
    Nidaros, Norway
    The new happiness system is in fact what got me off VP. Unhappiness from this and that just kept popping up and the formulas were way too over-complicated.
  10. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

    Sep 30, 2020
    I have not played any Civ games other Civ VI, so have no basis to compare against prior games. I will say that I love the game and have sunk more hours into it this year than any game I can think of in my adult life (I just got it earlier this year on Switch, and played in stages - so started with vanilla, then got the expansions and played some with just R&F, then added in GS).

    Echoing what others have said, the biggest issue for me is the late game. I've probably played only about 10 games all the way through to victory (spanning vanilla, R&F, and GS), but have probably another 50 that I've played into Renaissance and early Industrial, at which point I realized I would almost certainly eventually win and didn't want to spend hours just clicking through to get to that point.

    As I see it, there are three main AI issues that make the late game not very fun. The first is a lack of focus on a particular victory condition - civs who should be going for a cultural victory will sell off Great Works; civs going for domination won't declare war; civs going for science victory stop building campuses. The second, which is related, is a failure by the AI to adapt to current circumstances - given that the game is ultimately a competition, there needs to be more recognition by the AI of when a civ is pulling ahead of the others or driving towards victory. If one civ is pulling ahead, the others should be working together (at least in part) to pull it back. Instead, the AI just keeps on trading, allying, whatever, even as you cruise to victory. The third piece, also related, is the refusal to go to war. If you're on the verge of victory - you've launched a couple of space projects and are rolling towards the final one - they should throw everything they have at stopping you. If you're culturally dominant over half the civs in the game, they should stop converting each other back and forth and start trying to pillage your tourism improvements.

    As it is, once you survive the early portions and start building towards your victory path, you either just click your way through with little challenge or you play it more like SimCity where you just do things because they're fun and interesting. I still enjoy that enough, but there's only so many times you can build every post-Industrial wonder and make a paradise in the tundra before it gets old.
    CPWimmer likes this.
  11. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Jun 26, 2014
    "Doomed" is hyperbole, but I can't call Civ VI a complete success, even though I continue to play it. It's half a great game.

    This is it for me, too. I don't think I've finished a game in 3 years.

    It is a little frustrating that they continue to add stuff to the half they've already gotten right instead of radically redesigning the half that isn't compelling; I really don't any need more civs or leaders, but sure, I'll take 'em if they want to keep giving them to me. But hey, I'm sure this [stuff] ain't easy, and at this stage, 4 years on, a radical redesign of the second half of the game might not be worth the effort.
    ask, Tiger Genocide and acluewithout like this.
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Apr 11, 2011
    Doomed... we are all doomed. doooooomed!
    There are those that like marmite and those that do not.
    The bugs are annoying but not surprising as they are in all software, even the big companies.
    Having to cater to many audiences puts off purists, not surprising.
    I have adapted. It is fine for me now, loving it, warts and all. It has become a cuddly old chewed bunny rabbit, looking worn, but I love it. I just rip off the additional buttons my mother sews on it for me (friggin vampires)
    I'm with @EgonSpengler as in finishing few games but its the journey that counts.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  13. racha

    racha Warlord

    Jul 27, 2013
    Surrounded by barbarians
    Short answer: no.
    Long answer: No, not at all.

    Silly answer: It's bigly doomed. Many people are saying it's the most tremendously doomed game in, perhaps, the history of gaming. Not a lot of people know this, but Allan Alcorn was very sad about it when he invented pong, because he saw that Cagarustus would doom Civ 6 decades before it was made. We'll see what happens. :crazyeye:
  14. Larsenex

    Larsenex King

    Oct 31, 2005
    Ventura CA
    I loved IV and V. My biggest gripe with V is it hits the 32 bit memory wall late game on the largest maps. Suddenly the game freezes or crashes simply because it ran out of memory.
    Some of my favorite games were in both IV and V but ended on that wall and I had to restart.
    Not so much of that now with VI.
    If I could get IV with hexes and the late future units of beyond the sword, with a 64bit engine and the diplomacy of V, districts of VI and the ai modification brought about in Vox Pouli, I think we would have an all time supreme game, well at least for me.

    My favorite games are ones where I get longer wars from modern into future with also diplomacy and playing ai off each other while I warmonger another. ....good times.
  15. _hero_

    _hero_ King

    Feb 21, 2002
    Currently 15th on Steamcharts and that doesn't count however many console players there are. Civ VI is fine. It's not a perfect game but its appeal is pretty standard for a Civilization game. It's not perfect and some of the flaws will never go away, but relative to other civ games and other 4x games, Civ VI is a quality game.

    Some people are just way too negative and unrealistic in their expectations.
  16. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    May 29, 2006
    Where animals hop not run
    I take the definition of "doomed" to mean that Civ6 will not continue to evolve which I agree with which is very sad because every time that happens the new version has to re-invent the wheel and we have to wait years for it to mature again. I'd argue that Firaxis would have made more money by evolving the same civ game engine code over many years than what it does now which is to build from scratch, hack it, abandon it and start again which is very costly development wise.
  17. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

    Oct 12, 2011
    I love Civ6, it gave us Cleo, it gave us Tamar, it gave us Cat, it gave Ellie... but lately I've been thinking it's hot mess given that devs don't seem to want actually polish the thing.

    I think that the "less cartoony" thing is quite deliverate blindness considering Civ3 and 4 graphics
    DutchJob and 8housesofelixir like this.
  18. Kimurae

    Kimurae Chieftain

    Oct 7, 2016
    Hmm, I'm not sure why but it seems to me V and VI especially that the AI is oriented towards acting like a player, a spoiled brat player that throws tantrums when it does not get its way and keeps pinging/poking you with inane crap I never care about.

    After playing crusader kings, at least the diplomacy AI there seems to feel like there are a lot of selfish agents waiting for a chance to screw you over (and possibly screw your spouse). So, its very feasible for FXS to build an AI that can at least have engaging wants/needs, given 16 civs are significantly less than all the barons and what-not in a CK game.

    Maybe combat could be fixed by having fewer units and more upgrades and tech that just adds more bonuses to existing units. Beyond Earth did that.

    Or conversely don't have AI Civs act like players, but like AI agents, similar to barbarians, they grow/expand/war/trade based on agent code and don't follow the same rules as the player. (Who is looking at an AI simulation that reminds you of why you don't play board games with family?).
  19. DogeEnricoDandolo

    DogeEnricoDandolo King

    Dec 29, 2017
    I rolled my eyes at any threads with overdramatic titles and I wondered if I should read something that I knew would be infuriating, then I saw your response and it was definitely worth the time.

    If a game is doomed then still somehow comes out on top of the franchise, all subsequent games should strive to reach that doom.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  20. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

    Apr 19, 2013
    Well to be fair, at release Civ V was pretty doomed. It took a complete change in leadership and a massive rework to some core systems to get things back on track.

    However, this has also literally been a comment about every single entry in the series. II was a masterpiece and III never lived up to the expectations, IV never engaged people like III, V lacked the depth of IV, etc, etc. The series continues to get better in each iteration, if it wasn't there wouldn't be so many people that move along with the series. Of course so items get lost in the shuffle and everyone is going to miss out on something they loved (personally I hate not having Eco WC), but VI appears close to the end of its dev cycle, so in that regard I guess it is "doomed" in that it will be coming to an end, but the gameplay is fantastic and (like almost everything FXS puts out) well worth the price of admission.

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