[NFP] Is Civ 6 doomed?

[ThunderLizard2]

I'm looking forward to trying HUMANKIND - so done with Civ VI.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I got to be honest the Heroes and Legends looks like the most fun game mode that they've released, even if it's not totally historical.
I know it's not for everyone but it's certainly not doomed for me.

That being said I'm looking forward to January to see if we do indeed get corporations as well.

 

[Gedemon]

With 2,795.6 hours into this game I for one am loving the game and I started my Civ addiction the day that Civ 1 was released. I think that there is a very small group that don't like the game and that's fine everyone is entitled to their opinion but I wouldn't say its DOOMED

it's doomed for that group because unlike civ5 (and civ4, but it wasn't as relevant then) the parts that makes the game unplayable (as in "we don't want to play that") can't be fixed by mods, and doesn't seem to be in the fix list of Firaxis either.

 

[leandrombraz]

he wanted to make the civs lose cities in the Dark Ages (only to held back by QA complaints, Jesus).

In the mentioned prototype, you wouldn't just lose cities, you would lose them and they would turn into barbarian camps, so it was a permanent loss followed by a wave of barbarians. Do you really think that was a good idea, that people would enjoy it? Because I'm pretty sure everyone would receive that with pitchforks and demand Firaxis to change it, just like QA did.

Dark ages should kick harder and happen more often, but QA complaints were on point: Turning cities into barbarian camps was a bit excessive.

 

[Mahi]

With 2,795.6 hours into this game I for one am loving the game and I started my Civ addiction the day that Civ 1 was released. I think that there is a very small group that don't like the game and that's fine everyone is entitled to their opinion but I wouldn't say its DOOMED

I guess we just don't understand how you are getting any fun out of the late game. For me, I often end up with almost 100 turns till end game where nothing really happens.

 

[c4c6]

Dark ages should kick harder and happen more often, but QA complaints were on point: Turning cities into barbarian camps was a bit excessive.

Looking at the results I'm not so certain "QA being on point" ... barbarian camps were A BIT excessive & the whole approach was CANCELLED completely. This black&white makes me ill.

Why no rebellion spectrum?
Starting with: Citizens produce nothing but the food they consume themselves (civ1-4 "anarchy") for single turns, the same for several turns while emitting WEAK hostile units (warriors) ...cities defecting into Free cities ... cities defecting into barbarian camps.
The last point only applicable to peripheral cities up to pop 3 as well as limited to max 10% of the rebellions (or 0.1% for those preferring to shower only warm). Would THAT really be too hard?

 

[Elhoim]

Dark ages should kick harder and happen more often, but QA complaints were on point: Turning cities into barbarian camps was a bit excessive.

Looking at the results I'm not so certain "QA being on point" ... barbarian camps were A BIT excessive & the whole approach was CANCELLED completely. This black&white makes me ill.

That's my point as well, because what we ended up with was with Dark Ages being better than normal ages since you get some cool cards and you can slingshot into Heroic.

Why no rebellion spectrum?

Exactly. One could say that the lower loyalty during Dark Ages was intended to be the spectrum, but it was extremely easy to counter (like most things in the game).

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Normal ages are absolutely boring. Yeah, I have the same dedications than in Dark Ages, but I don't have powerful dark ages cards nor can I go to an Heroic Age. It's just... boring. They literally had a new cool mechanic (Ages) and made it than, if you missed the shot... well, it's like playing without that mechanic at all. At least with Dramatic Ages, you're always enjoying this mechanic, one way or the other, and that's cool.
Also, Heroic Ages are nice (three dedications), but... When I heard about "Heroic Ages", I thought about something really cool, something really heroic... But no, it's just "triple your bonuses for a regular Golden Age". In the base game, having dedicated Heroic Age cards would make this age way worth it and really more interesting.

 

[Krajzen]

The whole concept of Ages as they did in civ6 is stupid on all levels, to the point I honestly consider that tiny civ5 golden age mechanic to be better. Do you remember? In civ5 you get golden age if your empire is overall happy/stable for a long time, and it gives you bonus to economy and culture. Simple and makes sense. No dark ages, but golden ages are so good that you are still motivated to earn them in the natural way. Like in the real life, people are proud and motivated when their country has a prolonged period of great prosperity.

In civ6 points for ages are given not for happiness, stability or prosperity of any kind (as you could naturally expect) but for all sorts of strange arbitrary actions mostly disconnected from actual power of the state (and from the real world as well). Then you get some weird bonus like bonus speed to missionaries (???) which for many people, hilariously enough, is worse than the consolation prize for the dark age. And the best part is, dark ages never shatter any runaway empire at all, thus the system does completely fail its stated purpose, contributing to the unbearably static mid - to - endgame of linear runaway empires.

I guess other people still find a lot of fun in a billion of bonuses, points and currencies this game throws at them in the early game, and they do have a feeling of time well spent. I have been slowly going insane wondering if I am the only one having way less fun with civ6 than with civ5 or other strategy games, and that thread has given me a lot of relief that I am not. Although I don't think there are many people like me, who dislike this game to the extent of trashing even its widely acclaimed mechanics such as double tech tree, districts, ages, loyalty and environmental toys. And having so much satisfaction doing that!

As for the argumentum ad "but a lot of people have a lot of fun, therefore complaints are not valid". Personally I just see a dish which could be worthy of five star restaurant, but which has been turned into a somewhat tasty burger, and I criticize it on that basis: yeah, if fans like even this mediocrity, they would have find such heavebly joy in civ6 actually fulfilling its potential!

 

[TreVor_ish]

I'm not in so much dislike of a certain aspects/mechanics of the game as I'm disappointed by the limitations in modding. As Gedemon already mentioned - Firaxis doesn't want to fix many annoyances that I'm not even able to mod for myself.
And once again - LOVE the music in VI...
I mean, modding with sql/xml is easy and devs did leave more hooks for it than before, but even some of them have limitations - like u can't make a building that prevents environmental damage, because the effect that's responsible for it doesn't work when attached to anything other than governor, and there are many like that.
Adding the fact u need to cook blp's for any kind of 3d art and the number of xml's with descriptions for them to work is really over doing it a little. And off course lack of dll that makes everything else impossible to achieve (changing the mechanic for golden ages for instance - or getting back spying of allies - or fixing the ******* pathfinding not mentioning the AI). Community with source would make CIV VI what it should be from the beginning.

 

[Alexadamz]

Civ 6 music is so good they spent the whole budget making it and so the rest is unpolished at best. And even unpolished I like Civ 6 more than Civ 5. Overall, I agree it just lacks some good wraping up of things, most mechanics don't work together that well.

 

[glider1]

I think the writers of the Civilopedia in Civ6 deserve a lot of credit too. There is a lot of inferences between the lines in what they say and we may never see that style of writing in a game again.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

I hope it's moving in the right direction. All this new content is a fresh breath of air.
I'm currently thinking about getting the Season pass.
I don't like city rebellions don't turn into new civs. Domination victory is so easy it's almost disgusting, even at deity.
It's doomed to reborn. That's why I'm going to buy finally the Seasonal pass. This Black Friday.
If I get a tiny discount.

 

[Abaxial]

Regarding 1UPT, one needs to regard this in the light of the long history of hex wargames from about 1970 onwards. In that case, "stacking" was something your did with actual cardboard counters when you moved them around a hex map (which is why I can't bring myself to refer to hexes as "tiles"). Conventions varied from game game to game, but it was usually the rule that stacking limits applied at the end of your movement phase, i.e. you could always move one stack through another. Early games, of which the classic was SPI's "Napoleon at Waterloo", had one unit per hex. Civ 6 is essentially one combat unit + one non-combat unit. Many other options are possible, besides unlimited stacking. For instance, two units per hex. Or one units plus one support (artillery) unit. That would be a good rule for Civ, which would give more flexibility without suffering "stacks of doom"..

Yes, I was around in those days. Met Jim Dunnigan as well.

 

[need my speed]

One unit per tile is inherently a Civilization-dooming ( ) mechanism because of the necessary impact it has on production time and everything that flows from there (e.g. map size; if production must take long, because units must be limited, maps should fill up relatively faster than in older Civilization games, and thus be smaller - why was Civilization V's optimum amount of cities three, why did it require you to have building X in all your cities before being able to build a national wonder, why did it attempt to equate playing 'tall' with 'wide' by scaling costs, whereas before we explicitly had the 'one city challenge'? Exactly).

 

[Bechhold]

Bumping this as Humankind has launched an OpenDev on Humankind on PC, that is is if you preorder. Just at a glance... Firaxis is in deep, deep trouble. The Diplomacy alone has more depth than last two Civ games combined. You can build wonders, but you can have differing cities contribute thus making it be built faster. There are random events such as religious strife, governance, wounded soldiers etc. The combat alone surpasses anything the Civ franchise has ever made.

Firaxis if you are working on Civilization 7 then I am hope you are taking notes. I even hope you playing in the Open Dev. Because the entire franchise needs an overhaul.

 

[AntSou]

Bumping this as Humankind has launched an OpenDev on Humankind on PC, that is is if you preorder. Just at a glance... Firaxis is in deep, deep trouble.

Key words being "just at a glance".

I'm hyped for Humankind as well, but this kind of argument isn't great, especially coming one week after the experience of Cyberpunk 2077.

Better to wait until plenty of people have played the full game experience.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Humankind although still in beta does have many things made to my liking. I must say looks very promising. Will see how the NFP gonna look in April when Humankind releases.

 

[Sherlock]

The problems with CiVI are not hard to fix. They just don't seem to have any interest in fixing them.

So yeah, maybe 'doomed' is the right word.

 

[glider1]

Key words being "just at a glance".

I'm hyped for Humankind as well, but this kind of argument isn't great, especially coming one week after the experience of Cyberpunk 2077.

Better to wait until plenty of people have played the full game experience.

Your point of reference is your own well being but there is a greater good than your own well being. The reason why open dev exists is to help development and indirectly help build sales which is also necessary for development and especially necessary for the first ever company able to challenge Firaxis and improve the competitiveness of the market sorely needed after Firaxis has obviously become lazy with nothing substantial done for Civ6 in ages.

(EDIT: and even worse not allowing modders to improve it for them). By not doing anything you are indirectly rewarding Firaxis for this laziness.