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Is continets map just luck based stupididty?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by vendur, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. vendur

    vendur Warlord

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    Played a couple deit/immortal continent maps, and every game seems to revolve around luck. The worst luck is where you have a garbage AI get raped by one neighbor, then they take over the entire continent. Meanwhile, on your continent, you fight for every scrap of land. The dominant civ on the other continent basically walks through its opponents and the techs through the roof, and builds 100 unit armies. It's freaking ridiculous. The only way you can beat it is if youget lucky and find some terrain chokepoint on their continent you can hold them off anf just let them get slaughtered by ranged attacks. It's dumb. I don't play games for so many hours just to lose/win based on luck. Anyone figured out a different way to crack through the impossible continet that doesn't involve luck?
     
  2. stii

    stii Prince

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    Play pangea?
     
  3. vendur

    vendur Warlord

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    Only way to beat pnag on immortal/diety is to ruush with an overpowered "early biased civ" like alexander. booooooring.
     
  4. WeaselSlapper

    WeaselSlapper Prince

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    If you can beat the AI to GDRs you'll dominate easily.
     
  5. stii

    stii Prince

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    I played a deity pangea map where no one declared war on me until 1400AD. People love to exaggerate that you just have to rush, some early aggression is need most of the time but you hardly have to conquer the world with horsemen.
     
  6. elthrasher

    elthrasher Revcaster

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    You want to take over the other continent? Sounds hard. You want to win the game? That's easier. I played the exact scenario you described. By the time I reached the other continent, Darius was polishing off the last two civs left over there. He ended up with 3-4 times as many cities as me.

    Turns out the AI are not good closers in this game. Darius built the UN, but the city states hated him because he'd attacked too many of them so he just wasn't going to win that way. I was ahead in tech due to rationalism, built the ship and won. Darius never came after me, just kept hoping to win the UN vote, not that he used any of his 27 zillion gold to make friends.

    I'm sure you could do the same on the culture path or I might've even been able to win the diplomatic victory. Domination? That would've taken a lot of nukes.
     
  7. vendur

    vendur Warlord

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    And I've been attacked before 2000 BC.
     
  8. vendur

    vendur Warlord

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    Well, I guess this was my bad. I never clarified. But ya, a domination victory I'm taliking about. i'm pretty sure I'd win a UN vote since I've already freed 3 different city states.
     
  9. stii

    stii Prince

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    A lot of this depends how lucky you get with placement but not settling towards them helps a huge amount.

    Also to support your point it would have to be the AI always attacks you by 2000BC.
     
  10. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

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    Couldn't you just eventually bombard everything down? Computer is not exactly competent at sea.
     
  11. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    If you can't hack Continents on a harder difficulty, scale it back until your skill can manage. That's all there is to it.
     
  12. stii

    stii Prince

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    So how would you win? Cause if you can't how do you know it is even possible?
     
  13. vendur

    vendur Warlord

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    ZzzzZzZz. You missed the point. How do you take out the capital of a civ on a continent that has been controlled by them from 1000 BC when they have 100 units and are 50-100 turns more advanced in technology.
     
  14. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    stii:

    I don't know if it's possible, but I do know that it's possible to consistently win games on Continents at King, even if you get stuck on a no-rivers Forest wasteland with no Maritimes in sight, and every other Continent gets overrun by rampaging AI.

    If you can't win when the chips don't fall your way, then you have not truly mastered the game. You are relying on powerful exploits to win when you otherwise shouldn't.

    vendur:

    First point is to keep up in tech. If they have their continent and you have yours, then you should be keeping up. If they conquered their continent and you were not able to conquer yours, then you should be warring more. Today, horsemen are OP, but even without them, the AI shouldn't be offering enough of a challenge in war to make it past 0AD.

    I did not miss the point. You missed mine.

    You are not playing at an appropriate difficulty level, if you cannot keep up with Immortal or Deity AI on a purely economic basis, without the crutch of wars or Maritimes. If you can do that, then they shouldn't be up in tech, and once you're even in tech, you will win in war, since the AI's war capabilities are crap.
     
  15. stii

    stii Prince

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    I guess the answer is the AI is too dumb to win. 100 turns ahead doesn't do them much good if they can't finsh the game. They certainly won't be able to attack you across the sea and building the spaceship stuff takes forever. Assuming you can win tyhe UN vote by liberating some easy city states you probably have to figure out where their capital is tech to nukes drop a bunch on them then rush their capital for a domination win.
     
  16. stii

    stii Prince

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    Also I'm pretty sure this is straight up impossible. You can't keep up with a deity AI if you play a normal game. They can support a much bigger empire than you and ten times the units. You keep up with them by doing things they can't such as trading and attacking properly.
     
  17. Guardian_PL

    Guardian_PL Emperor

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    :lol::rotfl:
    That is SUCH an AWESOME response that it left me speechless. All hail to the King level wisdom :lol:

    Mate, on Deity it is the AI that is relying on powerful exploits in order to make up for its total ineptitude with combat. But you see, in Civ games there should be other ways to win than warwarwarwarwarwar throughout the entire game or complete idiocy of the AI that is unable to strike intercontinental invasion/make use of its bazillion gold to buy all the City States to win or prevent winning.

    Have you seen PieceOfMind's post presenting Firaxis new step in developing AI, the "Blanket Of Doom"?
     
  18. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    stii:

    You can't, and I can't, yet, but it's too early to say that this is impossible. In Civ IV, it was possible to keep up with AI on one city. It took a while to get there. It may be possible in Civ V. It's too early to call it just yet.

    Guardian_PL:

    That's true with Civ AI in general, throughout all the Civ games. They always rely on brute advantages. These are not exploits, since they are not players and they are not taking advantage of design or coding oversights. The proper term is handicap. You are giving them a handicap because you are so good at the game that this is necessary.

    If you cannot win against King level AI consistently without waging war, then I daresay that you shouldn't be giving them handicap advantages, no?

    This is not "King-level" wisdom. This is just common sense. It applies to all games.
     
  19. stii

    stii Prince

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    How exactly is one city a normal game? I don't think anyone won a civ4 deity game without abusing the computer at some point in a way a human would never fall for.

    The problem is that your challenge is way too vague there are loads of things that might be abuse in someone's eyes
     
  20. Surgeon

    Surgeon Warlord

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    Personally I just play pangea to get over the Navy AI problem. I have always done this in Civ where the option existed.


    One thing I am completely sick of in these forums is the elitist attitude some players who claim they always play diety and anyone playing lower difficulties are noobs/idiots. Even if the diety+ player is using a very specific strat to win and claiming all other ways of playing are stupid.
     

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