Is CVI going to blow?

[m15a]

Herding all dissenting opinions into one thread? So much for the free exchange of ideas and opinions on this forum. No thanks.

There are a lot of dissenting opinions spread out through the board, but a lot of these threads cover the same very broad topic of Civ VI being bad, or more precisely, one person who happens to think their opinion is so important that it warrants a new discussion, expressing that they think Civ VI is bad.

There aren't a whole bunch of "Civ VI is going to be awesome" threads. There *are* a bunch of threads about specific aspects of Civ VI that some people think are going to be awesome, but since those threads aren't specifically about awesomeness (actually one person's opinion of awesomeness), there's room for positive and negative opinions.

 

[labellavienna]

I am really hoping for it to be better than Civ V...fingers crossed though that money and greed won't be the main driving force behind this game.

 

[14thwarrior]

There are a lot of dissenting opinions spread out through the board, but a lot of these threads cover the same very broad topic of Civ VI being bad, or more precisely, one person who happens to think their opinion is so important that it warrants a new discussion, expressing that they think Civ VI is bad.

There aren't a whole bunch of "Civ VI is going to be awesome" threads. There *are* a bunch of threads about specific aspects of Civ VI that some people think are going to be awesome, but since those threads aren't specifically about awesomeness (actually one person's opinion of awesomeness), there's room for positive and negative opinions.

You're kinda missing the point, when a manufacturer is deeply loved by the masses that is when he should fear his next product the most.

After all if everything was rubbish before there is only one way but up. If you catch my drift.

Seldom does a valuable thing get achieved by a circle jerk. Contention is the key.

And as for acting as the thought police about this game, you should know better tbph.

 

[Thormodr]

There are a lot of dissenting opinions spread out through the board, but a lot of these threads cover the same very broad topic of Civ VI being bad, or more precisely, one person who happens to think their opinion is so important that it warrants a new discussion, expressing that they think Civ VI is bad.

There aren't a whole bunch of "Civ VI is going to be awesome" threads. There *are* a bunch of threads about specific aspects of Civ VI that some people think are going to be awesome, but since those threads aren't specifically about awesomeness (actually one person's opinion of awesomeness), there's room for positive and negative opinions.

Agree 100%. There is room for positive and negative opinions.

For example, if people hadn't voiced their displeasure about the awful global happiness mechanic, then maybe things would never have changed.

 

[14thwarrior]

Agree 100%. There is room for positive and negative opinions.

For example, if people hadn't voiced their displeasure about the awful global happiness mechanic, then maybe things would never have changed.

Also true. without any fear of cognitive dissonance. Quite.

What you love and what you hate about a game, are inherent components to what makes a game you return to, saying both, and given the opportunity is in summation the essence of good criticism.

Being critical does not just mean you hate something, by definition it can also mean and explain why you love something.

The most sincere critics are those who love something much more than others. This is obvious.

Actually it's so obvious that it appears trite.

 

[m15a]

You're kinda missing the point, when a manufacturer is deeply loved by the masses that is when he should fear his next product the most.

After all if everything was rubbish before there is only one way but up. If you catch my drift.

Seldom does a valuable thing get achieved by a circle jerk. Contention is the key.

And as for acting as the thought police about this game, you should know better tbph.

I think you're kind of missing *my* point. I'm talking simply about consolidating "Civ 6 will suck" threads into one thread (because they're all about one topic). That doesn't have anything to do with limiting people stating dissatisfaction of the game because you can still:

- state that negative opinion in any thread in the board concerning a particular aspect of the game
- create a new thread about a specific aspect of the game that you are worried will be bad and start a discussion about that

But I guess since I'm disagreeing with some aspect of one comment that agrees with you I'm the thought police and whatever I'm saying can't possibly contribute to productive free-thinking discussion.

(I didn't quote the "healthy criticism is good" truism because I agree with that.)

 

[14thwarrior]

I think you're kind of missing *my* point. I'm talking simply about consolidating "Civ 6 will suck" threads into one thread (because they're all about one topic). That doesn't have anything to do with limiting people stating dissatisfaction of the game because you can still:

- state that negative opinion in any thread in the board concerning a particular aspect of the game
- create a new thread about a specific aspect of the game that you are worried will be bad and start a discussion about that

But I guess since I'm disagreeing with some aspect of one comment that agrees with you I'm the thought police and whatever I'm saying can't possibly contribute to productive free-thinking discussion.

(I didn't quote the "healthy criticism is good" truism because I agree with that.)

Ah I see sorry, I see your point in context now. My bad. Fair enough.

The thought police thing was perhaps a little harsh.

 

[AriochIV]

At the end of the day if you are a games manufacturer, there are several things that are very important. Almost nothing though is more important than listening to the masses, the customer is always right. Whether they do or not...

Listening to customers is critical, but that doesn't mean you should always do what they tell you. Most customers don't know how to run a business or design a game; some know what they want in a game, but some don't even know that. Some ask for things which they would hate if you actually gave to them.

The customer is always right. But what if two different customers want two different and opposite things? Which one is right?

No work of art of any value was ever created by a show of hands. The surest way to please no one is to try to please everyone.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Listening to customers is critical, but that doesn't mean you should always do what they tell you. Most customers don't know how to run a business or design a game; some know what they want in a game, but some don't even know that. Some ask for things which they would hate if you actually gave to them.

The customer is always right. But what if two different customers want two different and opposite things? Which one is right?

No work of art of any value was ever created by a show of hands.

Give the customer what he doesn't know that he wants, not what he says he wants.

 

[14thwarrior]

Listening to customers is critical, but that doesn't mean you should always do what they tell you. Most customers don't know how to run a business or design a game; some know what they want in a game, but some don't even know that. Some ask for things which they would hate if you actually gave to them.

The customer is always right. But what if two different customers want two different and opposite things? Which one is right?

No work of art of any value was ever created by a show of hands. The surest way to please no one is to try to please everyone.

True didn't though say it was the be all and end all, but I take your point.

Give the customer what he doesn't know that he wants, not what he says he wants.

Yeah apt too.

I was once invited to a beta testing site by someone who shall remain nameless, I made the mistake of arguing with a developer and was promptly booted so far off the server that to this day I still can't see the colour green. Not by the developer by the way by the person who invited me, who thought such disrespect would probably upset the very foundation of civilisation.

Since that day I have questioned those who get to decide what is a good idea and what is not. I don't like moderation in that fashion. It feels like we are under the SS. Still some people do get mad with power.

I'd mention just how trivial the argument was, and what it was about, and who it was who did that. But it would probably get me booted so far from this site that blue would become a problem. Suffice to say some people really don't like you being disrespectful to their gods that is blasphemy. Which is why I always am of course. Everyone makes mistakes.

If they are so good that they cannot take criticism, why should we care?

Oddly enough there's a happy ending because my suggestion was then implemented in the next CIV, because it was blindingly obvious. So it wasn't all bad. Might not of been anything to do with what I said which was so obvious that Captain Obvious probably didn't even get involved, but it was a nice feeling to think my boot from the colour green achieved nothing if not something.

I'm rambling I know but I would assume you take the point...

 

[Acken]

Godwin aleays wins.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Godwin aleays wins.

Godwin is always right in the end - Hitler is coming.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

Listening to customers is critical, but that doesn't mean you should always do what they tell you. [...] Some ask for things which they would hate if you actually gave to them.

Nothing has driven this point home for me like Diablo III's infamous auction house. I almost literally jumped for joy when I first heard about it, yet its actual effect was a total destruction of my enjoyment of that game. (They swung the other way and eventually removed it -- an extreme reaction and a bad mistake in its own right, imo, which turned me off from D3 for good.)

Imo, you should have a clear vision for your game and stick to it for the most part; however, if a lot of people are being very vocal about some issue (mainly when the game is already out), then you should take action or you'll risk alienating the playerbase. The (otherwise very responsive) devs not improving the sometimes very frustrating traffic AI in Cities: Skylines despite constant requests by the fanbase is an example of this in action, imo. (They kind of painted themselves in a corner with the low system requirements, but they could release an expansion with improved traffic AI.)

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Judging by the graphics, yes

 

[14thwarrior]

Godwin aleays wins.

It's not even a law really. it's just something that gets wheeled out at some point on any thread even if it is about flower arranging the longer the thread gets.

It goes without saying if you disagree with what I said you're not just like the Nazis but worse.

Godwin is always right in the end - Hitler is coming.

Hitler already came, you might want to google it.

 

[m15a]

It goes without saying if you disagree with what I said you're not just like the Nazis but worse.

I can't imagine why you'd be booted from a beta test...

EDIT: Added smiley for clarity

 

[14thwarrior]

I can't imagine why you'd be booted from a beta test...

It was a beta test site rather than a beta test per se, ie where devs and beta testers, some professional some just ordinary players discussed stuff. CivIII thing mostly involved with threshing out either PVP or PVE. A sort of sub site, by invitation only, I won't get into the specifics, because it's ancient history. Suffice to say "though shalt not muzzle the ox before he treadeth out the corn."

I know bad joke but it is pretty apt

Partly my fault probably, i didn't get the level of reverence our gods (Devs) had at the time, although i certainly never offended anyone. Just one of those things. : happens. It's not even remotely interesting, and I probably should never have mentioned it anyway.

It just stuck in my mind at the time, and you know how people, and of course me being one of them are. Boring and not worthy of comment.

the only thing I will say is it was a discussion about simple mathematics and game mechanics, and it was an obvious point I was making. And it was weird. The guy who invited me was probably under a lot more pressure than he should of been at the time, and it was one of those things.

 

[m15a]

Yeah... I was just making a joke. I'm not actually asking why.

 

[14thwarrior]

Yeah... I was just making a joke. I'm not actually asking why.

The internet and jokes, they never really work do they. You're missing 90% of communication even if you use smillies. Fair enough.

let's extract the quote for the sake of satire and irony:

I can't imagine why you'd be kicked from a beta test

a) you could imagine why but the comment was dry

b) you know why because you were there at the time. Very unlikely

c) You can't imagine

d) wut? wut wut wut. I'm gonna pop some tags only got $20 in my pocket.

if you catch my drift.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Hitler already came, you might want to google it.

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?