1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Is F10 an exploit?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by TheOverseer714, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    5,077
    Location:
    Ohio
    I recently saw a post where someone said they would never use F10 because it was an exploit of the game. For those few who don't know, at the beginning of the game you can find out who your opponents are by pressing F10, which brings up the space race status. There is a tab you can hit with "view space race". There you will find a list of your opponents. I say it is only an exploit right then. My reasoning is, all that information is freely available after only 20 turns, with the "History of The World" pop-up(Wealthiest Nation, Largest Nation, etc.). I think it only lists 8, so on a larger than standard world, it remains an exploit. I have no problem with it after 3000 BC.
     
  2. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,585
    Location:
    Ohio
    The Demographics screen (F11) lists the top 5 cities, which tells you at least four of your opponents right away. But knowing who your opponents are doesn't affect gameplay much at all, anyways - you still don't know who your neighbor is, after all. I wouldn't consider it an exploit.
     
  3. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,118
    Location:
    Northern California
    I've never thought of it as an exploit, though I've seen Succession Games where the team tries to make a game more challenging by not looking at it. It's similar to deciding to play Always War...even though the restriction is self-imposed.

    For anyone who uses either CrpMatStat or CivAssistII, you have easy immediate access to ALL the civs in a game, even on a huge map with 16 civs. You don't even need to play the 4000bc save to get that info, and I'm pretty sure they are both allowed in xOTM games here and probably HoF games. MapStat shows it on the "CivInfo" tab, and CA2 shows it in the "Map" tab when you right click on the map and then click on Properties.

    If it is in fact an exploit, it's certainly a commonly used one. I often use it to determine what I'll research first, and many games I've read here discuss that type of decision.
     
  4. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13,880
    Location:
    Oviedo, Fl
    I think most consider it an exploit, but is is not a big deal in std maps. In those games you will soon get the survey and know who is in the game anyway.

    Now if it is a map with more than 8 civs, then can get some extra knowledge. Of course being able to know the civs from jump street is an edge. You can determine the techs that are known already and make an adjustment in your path, if needed.
     
  5. Elear

    Elear Aux armes citoyens

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    I usually choose the civs. When I don't, I sometimes check it. It isn't really worth worrying about.

    (I used this in our SG, so let's not call it an exploit ;))
     
  6. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I don't think I would consider it an exploit. I personally never thought about it. But anymore I play with at least 20 Civs anyways, so knowing who is on the map, doesn't even really allow me to shift any tech focus. I suppose it could only be an exploit depending on how many nations you have set into the game. I mean the more you put in the less it matters at all. The less you put in, the less it matters (because of the 20 turn pop-up). I don't think this gives you enough edge to really make any noticable difference.
     
  7. Marsden

    Marsden Keeper of the HoF Annex Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,024
    Location:
    Thulcandra
    If you choose your opponents, then you all ready know.

    If you choose random opponents, then you don't want to know and don't look.

    If you pick random opponents and then look, then you are a bad bad person and should go to your room and think about what you did. :nono:
     
  8. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    The HoF officially calls this an "Allowed Exploit". It can make a difference on which tech you research from the outset, but that's about as much advantage as there is to it, I think. If you have more than six or seven opponents, most of the first-tier techs are covered, anyway, and you still have to find your opponents to trade with them.

    Even so, I generally prefer the mystery of not knowing.
     
  9. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    London
    I consider it a bug, in the sense that Firaxis presumably imagined that F10 was presenting a list of known (or perhaps embassied) civs, instead of all civs, but no-one noticed otherwise during QA.
    But to be further classed as an exploit, it should have a detrimal and imbalancing effect on the game. I think the benefit this knowledge provides is so miniscule that it does not qualify. I do always check F10, but just for interest really; my research at the start is likely to be Pottery / Aphabet / Writing, no matter who is in the game.
     
  10. mr_lewington

    mr_lewington King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Messages:
    627
    Location:
    Canada
    what does f10 do again? historograph?
     
  11. Elear

    Elear Aux armes citoyens

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    It is the space ship screen.
     
  12. Marsden

    Marsden Keeper of the HoF Annex Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,024
    Location:
    Thulcandra
    They are specifically refering to looking at the spaceship screen and then hitting the view opponents progress button, the exact name I forget, but then it says each opponents name and progress, and that they say is the exploit, knowing who you're up against in 4000BC. A little weird, yes, but not an exploit. Especially if you pick your opponents, which many do.
     
  13. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
  14. D0NIMATRIX

    D0NIMATRIX Full of drivel

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    Political incorrectness
    I don't think it should be considered an exploit, because unlike in some other games, there aren't any Civ bonuses like horse bonuses or spear bonuses, so it makes little difference. Anyway, it was like that in the real world (except with the new world and all), because trade made tales of distant cultures come up everywhere.
     
  15. 3 EMS

    3 EMS King

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    775
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NC
    After all these years I've never even looked.
     
  16. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    I think it is called an "exploit" because you are using a game mechanic for something other than its intended purpose. Checking on the progress of the space race should not give you any information at all in 4000BC. But it does, so it is an exploit, albeit a very minor one.

    The game handles this nicely already with the various history books. I think the designer's intent was that anything lower than eighth place was unworthy of discovery by rumor.

    But however you think that should go, just because it can be called an "exploit" doesn't make it horrible to use it. It is explicitly allowed in all official games. Use it if you want, and others can leave it alone if they want. No big deal.
     
  17. pol1

    pol1 kayaking physicist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    398
    Location:
    Koszalin, Poland
    i've never used F10 for that purpose.

    but as anaxagoras said - You can consider history books, or F11 screen as something like rumours, someone came back to Your country, that had heard about great city called Babylon... (heard from some other merchant etc...)

    (well in our case we know, that Babs in our world - cause cities' names are always the same)
     
  18. D0NIMATRIX

    D0NIMATRIX Full of drivel

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    Political incorrectness
    I guess, but then again I never use it anyway.:)
     
  19. Padma

    Padma the Absent Admin Administrator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    14,419
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Omaha, Nebraska USA
    [offtopic]
    I just want to explain/remind, that this game was *designed* to be played with not more than 8 Civs at a time. Only when it was nearly ready to ship was the decision made to allow more Civs per game. This explains the Foreign Advisor Screen and the "history books". :)
     
  20. D0NIMATRIX

    D0NIMATRIX Full of drivel

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    Political incorrectness
    Really? I thought that 16 was the original limit. Ah, all the trivia you learn in a day...
     

Share This Page