Is it me, or does Weapon Arsenal for cargo really suck

[LORD ORION]

I dunno how to use this starting unit for anything remotely useful as a strategy. Can anyone shed some additional ideas (condition: they aren't terribad plans)

1) Not nearly strong enough to do anything useful by itself (like engage an alien nest)
2) Scavenging or Liberation army virtues come later, so it's not like you'll have a problem making a soldier just as you get them. So there is no early "production" gap to take advantage to power through to something. (eg: African Union doesn't need to worry about that 1st earth relic, so gets some free time to build whatever weird situational start)
3) Go Physics 1st to pair it with an early Ranger *Thumbs up* Good plan lol! An anti-snowball colony start strategy.

I have some ideas on what might be done with these guys, but I'd like some more input to cover all the angles on why it is a terrible seed option.

Edit: Forgot to mention the only strength I see in them early, the ability to pick up more pods faster at the start, and that is a pretty marginal advantage that I've yet to see translate into this seed option being on par with other development options.

 

[Victus75]

The only thing it seems to be "useful" for is if you'd want another unit to scout around along with the initial Explorer. Sure it can't do excavations, but it can still recover resource pods.

 

[Gorbles]

Additional scouting, as Victus said.

It's also a worthy base defense / Nest-purging starter especially with Aggressive Aliens and decent use of tile spacing / Alien aggression management. The promotions stack up relatively quickly so if you don't over-engage it (or get unlucky) you have a fully-promoted Soldier (that Affinity upgrades for free) earlier on than you otherwise would be.

You also then don't have to alter your initial BO to include a Soldier, though that argument can be made for other starting options.

It depends what your initial / immediate goals are ingame. I typically start with a Worker, but I always build a second as soon as possible. Or I get the free Clinic (combined with African Union, for so many free buildings). I used to get the free tech but tech costs being so low I don't so much anymore.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I agree that it seems the worst cargo for me.

Swap it for a free additional explorer and that would make it a competitive choice!

Or give 2 soldier units at least!

 

[Victus75]

Yeah I was thinking that if the option would be another Explorer instead of Soldier, would that be more appealing to players?

 

[Gorbles]

I doubt it'd still beat Worker, free Tech or free Clinic though. They're all more of an investment, turnwise, than a Soldier or Explorer is. And thus a better "free" reward.

 

[matisse]

Maybe it would be more appealing if it was a Marine instead of a plain old Soldier. Or if you got access to a UU that replaces the Soldier and has slightly better stats (12 strength, 65 production?).

 

[LORD ORION]

What if it gave you 2x Veteran soldiers (why would your sponsor send non-experienced soldiers heh) in place of the standard scout.

1) You get some troops that can actually be in place and fight aliens when you unlock scavenging
2) 2x units still scouts more land closer to base and picks up more pods
3) They can fortify on a contested excavation site
4) They can remove a rival scout by force from an excavation by double teaming it
5) With the 50% XP bonus in might you are going to have 2 strong infantry units to steal an early colony initiative land grab in your direction that was intended to block you in.

The tradeoff is you need to build a worker still, and you need to fit a scout into your build order to do excavations.

This also gives you some consideration on your choices
1) Continental Scanner will give you an idea where to grab an early colony from a rival faction
2) Retrograde Thrusters reveals a wider area around your colony to grab resource pods fast and pick the best spot for starting without a worker
3) Lifeform sensor will show you where to skirmish with an isolated nest's units to get XP and wound them, to be ready to kill many aliens ASAP as soon as you get scavenging

Finally picking up an early affinity and turning them into marines would also be a strong improvement for your starting position.

 

[Elz Majesto]

Start off with a combat rover instead of a soldier?
Better stats, and they can scout better

 

[jmm]

New cargo:
1 Veteran Soldier
Advanced Training: First promotion requires half the experience (Infantry units only)

 

[Callonia]

I use it to scout out the lands and plan out the settlement and then keep area of the map lit up that I don't want city states spawning in. And then usefulness of soldiers increase by alot if you happen to drop down next to a hive nest. I seriously pick soldier as my cargo like 100% of the time.

All the early information from scouting helps you long term because you get to know where resources is and allow you to place your inital settlers optimally.

 

[tedeviatings]

I'd rather go with the worker since I start my build order with an explorer and am not afraid to build another one if needed. They do what you just said at least as well but are more mobile, can excavate and you can still start with the worker.

 

[Ryika]

Add two scouts and it may be worthwhile. Until then the Worker and Free Pioneering are just way stronger, soldiers don't provide anything that you'd need at that moment.

 

[Gorbles]

Upping it to a Combat Rover has merit.

 

[Ryika]

A combat rover would have the same problem: It doesn't add much to your overall development. Would still not make it a "good" choice from the point of efficiency. Might even be counter-productive, because the rovers are really bad at defending and can't be used to attack other Civs at that point either.

 

[Gorbles]

Rovers, however, are much stronger against Aliens than a Soldier, and you bypass the tech restriction that you need to break through in order to produce them normally.

The key here is not to make the perk too much of a no brainer. It should be useful, but situationally-so.

 

[Ryika]

I'd actually say a normal soldier is about as good at defeating aliens as a rover is because it gets the defense bonus from terrain. Just defending and letting the aliens suicide themselves is the safest bet.

But again, a military unit just doesn't do enough, other than helping to explore a bit and maybe getting some additional resource pods. Because why kill aliens at that point? Doesn't help you at all. A military unit on its own just isn't good at helping you develop your empire. And the few situations where it might be useful are so rare that you can't really bet on getting a suited location. If we were to choose our loadout AFTER landing, then it might be a choice from time to time, but the way it is now... meh.

 

[Gorbles]

The terrain benefits are mostly outweighed by the increased strength of the Rover, though I swear there was an issue with not getting Affinity upgrades to granted units in some cases? I need to check if I can replicate that.

A Rover is also far more manouevrable than a Soldier unit, which does help in scouting and early-game exploration more than a Soldier ever would. I'd argue a free Explorer is too strong, given that you already start with one and limited Expeditions early on really stops that unit from being too strong.

I think it's a good compromise.

 

[Ryika]

What does the scout you get have to do with the strength of an extra scout? That argument doesn't make sense. If anything it makes the second scout less valuable because you already have a unit that can make excavations and you can block additional ones with the soldier you get from founding your first city.

But just compare it to the other bonuses: A free Worker grants you +5 hammers very early as long as you have titanium... and free pioneering allows you to get your first trade route at around turn 20, which then also gives your capital about 4-5 hammers and probably 1-2 food. You'd not even have that kind of progress if you were to get a free battlesuit. A free scout would at least provide a (non-reliable) chance of useful progress due to excavations.

 

[Gorbles]

You . . . already get an Explorer. Explorers are very strong units by regards of what effects Expeditions can have on the game.

It's a military-focused perk. Keep it as something that grants you a military bonus, and balance against it. Heck, make it give you a Soldier and a Ranger. Who knows. Bonus military units are useful.