Is it possible to win Deity in a "fair" game?

I'd like you to calm down a little bit. I think I know how you feel, you just got "that game you waited for" , you "fought for" , you've "suffered" for it. Chances are there though that you'll lose it, so don't throw your computer out of the window should this happen.

Sera

Im perfectly fine with losing. Without a good chance of losing, there would be no game. ON lower levels I have lost many times in situations where 5-10 loads would make the difference, but I chose not to. I dont like loading, escpecially loading aims changing result of battles etc.

However I'm aware that on deity I may have to look differently on couple of loads, as by far not every game turns out playable.
 
Jesus, this Deity is a pain. Sweating like hell. Please take a look I wot play any further before You can give me an advice. This is the BEST EVER deity game for me till far.
Managed to get tu music first and used GA tu bulb drama (maybe should had gone for golden age tho, as Ragnar went to war just a turn before)

I managed to get parthenon and great lib as well, I congured Suleiman to death, I will get Iron soon, but my army is now old to date. Opponents are strong civs.

Ragnar just went to war, I think this is the best moment to attack him. Please give advice how to mobilize army at maximum speed and what should it cointain of? The best would be to attack Ragnar in about 10-15 moves.

How to use great preast now? Bulbing theology is not he best atthe moment imo. Maybe just join city for money and hammers?

Also, being stubborn as hell with city management, You can take a look over cities as well. I know what You think about it, but I rly ca not live without the walls in border cities of both ends:)
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than in advance, I really do much better-

Ok, I won't repeat the advice I gave to you already, because I don't wanna be redundant. This basically says, that I again found minor mistakes, but nothing too serious. Your situation is:

  1. Your cities are really really strong (most have double Food) .
  2. Most of your cities are really really small. They're not working all good tiles, they need to grow.

1. is good and 2. imo contradicts an immediate war. I know that you feel that you're in a good tactical situation with Ragnar being in war, it's important that you wait though. Winning 1-2 wars is easy, but it's extremely important to be in a decent situation afterwards too. It won't help you if you conquer Ragnar now too, because you already have a deficit of 66 GPT, conquering him now will only create an even larger deficit and your cities are not ready to pay for it. Your research is decent if having in mind that you don't run Civil Service and don't have an Academy yet. Stop working those hills + Cottages in Edirne, work only the Food and hire 2 Scientists to create a GS asap. Learn for your future games, that getting an Academy is regarded as a really important thing by most. Imagine, that running CS + having an Academy usually results in about 40 BPT, that'd be 33% of what you're currently conducting.
As you got Parthenon + TGL though, you'll still get a GS in time for CS too late already but better later than never (CS is the time at which you wanna have a GS at any means) . More important than what I said already is that you connect the Iron near Ecbatana, because:

The earliest time you want to go to war in this game will be with Maces (of course with some mixed in XBows and later Pikes and so on) and Catapults / Trebs.

Note that this is not now, and it won't be in the next 10-15 turns either. You can get Civil Service quite easily from Pericles, all that's needed is that you put some research in it and then trade it against Music, choose someone else should you find out that Pericles already researched into Music. I'd advise to use the Great Prophet to bulb Theology because I currently don't know of anything better to bulb with it. Settling GPs is generally a poor choice because it takes hundreds of turns for the GPs to pay back, Theo is a heavy-value tech that you can lay ontop of Music to get Civil Service instantly and Theocracy is an awesome Civic together with Bureacracy, because it allows you to get lvl 3 units from Barracks only.

From what I can see you'll have to wait for Machinery (note: Don't research Machinery yourself unless your XBow-rushing, Machinery as a military-technology has high value to the AI and therefor can be easily gotten through trade usually) , in that time, grow your cities and produce lvl 3 Catapults (promote to CR1 + Accuracy) . Research Paper -> Education and then either go for Rifles or Cannons, or:

A more solid time-window for you to attack that also works on other speeds than Marathon is available with Cuirrassiers.

From what I see, this is the better choice. You got Horses, you got Iron (basics) , your cities need to grow and you can conduct awesome research from them (FIN + lots of riverside grassland) , you got the GL (Academy, Education / Liberalism bulb) . Cuirrassiers are amazingly strong units and their biggest advantage is, that they "can shoot over walls" (all Gunpowder units ignore Walls / Castles) . They're fast, and they're strong. I'm one that doesn't think medieval wars suck in general (many do) , I morely see your situation and the way that seems suited is, to let the cities grow, research as fast as possible, and then whip them down harshly (that means +5-10 whipping anger in all cities and maybe even to a size where they can only work the Food) .

Choosing which opportunity you wanna take though is your choice, and I cannot give you absolute certainty if Cuirrassiers really are the way, as it's already some time ago when I played Marathon. I know medieval wars work on Marathon and I don't know if building up an army isn't just so easy with the lower unit costs while the time-windows itself are so big, that Cuirrassiers are already later than possible and that Maces + Siege would have been right, therefor I'd like you to ask yourself which goal you have. If winning is the only thing that you want to achieve, go Cuirrassiers, or even go Maces + Cannons (!!!) . Castles can take a long time to bombard down and the two mentioned Gunpowder units don't have problems with them. Cuirrassiers are fast and strong, Cannons are slower (which isn't that bad on Marathon) and Cannons leave nothing but a mess that "any STR8+ unit" can beat. As I think of this I have to say, that Maces + Catapults first, then continue with Trebs, than Cannons seems fitting to the game and the settings. Those units beat "everything up until Rifles" and you could start with building up very early. For Cuirrassiers you'd have to wait, and on Marathon settings unit-speed doesn't play too much of a role, so that'd be my choice.

Seraiel

P.S.: You have a great empire. Just pay attention that you don't fck up now, from my perspective that round has great possibilities for a win.
 
Yea!!!! I think I have it:) Million thanks for good advice.

Still a lot to do, and not gonna finish soon, but this is defintely beatable now. AI has a minor tech lead but I reached infantry first most maceman are cr2, but that should do against rifles.
I have done about 10 loads in this game and had some luck with politics, managed to get defensive pack 1 turn before another AI attacked me and my main stack was far away exactly nearby my attacker.
 
One question: You do know about Siege, don't you? I ask because you neither need CR-Infantries nor Infantries at all to beat Rifles.
 
One question: You do know about Siege, don't you? I ask because you neither need CR-Infantries nor Infantries at all to beat Rifles.

I have read it, yes, walls are obsolote for gunpower units, but overall defense is not. Just checked it over. CR3 units have much better chance to win, if defense is zeroed. So it stays a little mystical for me. Probably part of defense comes from culture and that one remains.

I dont understand why You say I dont need CR units? Regular units have poor 10-20% against garrioned rifles...
 
Nono, an Infantry against a Rifle should have over 50% of winning odds. What I'm suspecting is, that you're playing without bombarding away the cultural defenses, that's something only siege can do. Also, the difference between CR2 and Combat 1 + Pinch isn't that great.
 
Nono, an Infantry against a Rifle should have over 50% of winning odds. What I'm suspecting is, that you're playing without bombarding away the cultural defenses, that's something only siege can do. Also, the difference between CR2 and Combat 1 + Pinch isn't that great.

No, I am playing with siege. The thing is, I still tend to build too many buildings and try to avoid losses on military. I normally dont attack less than 80% with my elite units.

Yes, checked it over, against regular rifle 1 leve garrison odds are around 70-80%.
 
Also, CR3 stay decent weapons even when AI also gets infantry. + CR3 can be upgraded to mech infantry further on and it will have nice pushing power with good defense same time till the end of game.
 
I'm not saying CR-Rifles / Infantries are bad, I say I'd like you to not have to rely on them ;) . Just very simple, do you bombard the cultural defenses with siege and do you know that siege-units when attacking normally do dmg on muliple units?

Seraiel
 
Hi Seraiel,

Im now about to win my very first Deity game (still have 3 strong AI enemies but Im in lead with score already. If nothing VERY suprizing will happen, I will manage to win it even with reasonably good starting location - nothing extraordinary. Thanks a lot for Your time with looking over my saves and giving good advice.

To appreciate Your time and effort I give You feedback, which of Your advices were a key to victory:

1) one can not seal himself into defence and research and build with the same pace as AI. This means at least 1 fast war is needed to get more land and cities. Without that You would soon get overflooded by incoming AIs.
2) Its almost impossible to get an army soon enough without whipping. Whipping in early game is a must.
3) Early game food is the most important tile for city.
4) To keep a tech parity best way is to go Oracle and be first on liberalism. This actually leaves a little choice in tech race.
5) One must keep science on 100% as long as possible, even if its - 200 gold each turn. Marathon makes game easier, I understand it now, as AI has more gold its easier to fund yourself by selling older tecnologies to weaker AI.
6) Academies on science cities are must. ASAP.
7) Diplomacy is more important than ever. I will win this game not only because of good city locations and successful early rush, but making many friends. Once I got saved by very lucky defensive pact just 1 turn before AI attack (I will post screenshot to show just how incredible lucky it was by so many means!) Even now, when have conquered the holy city of worlds main religion I have key AI at pleased or at least cautious so I can pick enemies myself instead of endless defending.

As an addition I realised that Your suggestions lead to key point of what I asked "winning deity more or less fair way", which is to keep pace of AI, You have to be almost 1000 years on marathon faster than against immortal. This really is something. If I like mainly attack with gunpower units, I can still do it, but instead of 1000 AD I have to be in same "READY" situation about on 1 AD, my own problem how to manage that.

We also discussed game settings doing game easier or harder, my suggestions after being more or less able to beat deity (thank to You one more time)

1) Marathon DOES make game easier. Especially because of money trade and You have more time on early stages where You need to take out 1 AI at least.
2) No technology brokering is probably the easiest option of three, as it allows human player to trade techs that he gets via beelines but the same time choose which AI doesnt get it yet. I however played brokering on, which would be the second easiest.
3) Huge maps make game more risky. You may get sneak attacked when Your main army is 15 turns away from home. When vassalage ON its much harder to avoid strong AI on the other side of map collecting vassals.
4) Agressive AI - early to make conclusions about that, as I played with normal AI, but comparing to regular games (I mostly play agressiive AI), armies seem to be smaller tho.

When I get time, Ill post some decicive moments of game, maybe someone finds them useful as well...
 
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