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Is King to Emperor a big jump?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Walter R, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Walter R

    Walter R Great Engineer

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    I don't get it. Since I failed miserably in my first outing on Emperor I went back and played two games on King with similar settings (England, Standard, Large Islands, 6/12) - both easy wins. In both cases I got into tech lead by about T120 and steadily romped away. I built no world wonders before I reached Industrial. I did the first as a SV which probably took too long (I think it was T373) and the second as Dom (T353 but I was strolling long before that); and I never went unhappy. Darius was in the second game but I captured Persopilis and his wonders mid-game and effectively stopped him doing his thing. Also in both I only founded two cities for quite a long time and founded 3rd around T150 when there was somewhere worth having. In both cases I didn't found a religion but grabbed an early pantheon (FR) and London grew like a plague. Also I didn't have any early wars but punched hard once I had ships - same as I used to on Warlord! I turned off espionage btw. Actually I was so far ahead in the last game that I never saw an enemy plane. So I'm still not sure if I'm doing something fundementally wrong but just getting away with it on King, or if I just got unlucky first time out. I guess I'll have to try Emperor again to find out...
     
  2. Firesmacker

    Firesmacker Chieftain

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    I made the jump about a month ago and it seems to be hit or miss. What I mean is, some games it feels like King and others I'm scrambling to hang on. Usually because the AI forward settles all over "my" territory.

    One thing I've noticed is that I really need to micro-manage my specialists more. I can't just coast along like I used to. In fact, although I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, I never once assigned a specialist until moving up to Emperor.

    I learned that I need to strap in for the long haul and think about what I'm doing instead of not really caring too much since I knew that no matter what, I would win eventually.

    Don't get me wrong, you can still lay back and chill compared to other difficulties, you just can't leave every city on "default" and still win. At least I can't.
     
  3. Zilkin

    Zilkin Chieftain

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    For me King to Emperor was definitely bigger jump than Emperor to Immortal at least.

    I agree with Firesmacker though that even games on same difficulty level can play very differently. The map is probably the biggest factor here. First of all your own starting location obviously makes a big difference, but I think the main thing is how hard the map is for the AI. The AI simply doesn't handle water, or choke points like mountain ranges very well. That can from my experience have a bigger impact on difficulty than the actual difficulty level.
     
  4. Ozymandias9891

    Ozymandias9891 Warlord

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    I was looking at making the jump from Prince to King, but always got absolutely owned before my game was 150 turns old. What are some of the key things to keep in mind when moving to a higher level of gameplay? What are some tips that I can use to adjust to the higher levels?
     
  5. Astennu

    Astennu Warlord

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    For me personally Emperor to Immortal was quite a huge jump.

    I only played maybe a couple games on King before moving to Emperor but it didn't feel like a huge difference.
    On Emperor (and obviously King) I can wonderspam like crazy.

    I can maybe get like 4-5 wonders only on Immortal.
     
  6. JanghanHong

    JanghanHong Enrico Trololo

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    The words on the street is that Emperor to Immortal is a bigger jump than anything else. I got to Emperor difficulty 2 years ago I've stayed there since. Not only is the title the best for me, I don't like how Immortal and Deity encourages super micromanagement and gaming the game, if that makes any sense.
     
  7. sendos

    sendos Immortal

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    King to emperor is indeed quite a big jump. My recommendation to improve yourself on emperor is to adopt a balanced approach of wide and tall. Don't get GL because even if you get it, you'll still be considered behind in tech. To succeed, you need a decent amount of cities. Also, most players recommend setting up capital on a hill to get additional production and defence. It could also mean the difference between building a wonder in 30 turns or 24 turns.

    Whenever you scout about and find lots of room, liberty is a must. Get the messenger god pantheon as well to counteract the wide science penalty.

    With emperor to immortal, the jump is also rather large. When I played as Siam on immortal, I missed out on most projects, got my religion rather late and got my ideology rather late (no SP bonus). Nevertheless I won a diplomatic victory, because both science and culture victories were out of the question. I also managed to win the world's fair by 100 production, too, churning out 800 culture per turn. :)
     
  8. neoaspilet11

    neoaspilet11 Chieftain

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    Hong Kong
    it is not fun for me from emperor to immortal. i tried immortal twice and ended with not good results. emperor is fun to play at least.

    wow thats a record 800 culture per turn.. i only manage 400.
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    For me, King to Emperor was a very tiny step.

    Big jumps were Emperor to Immortal and to a lesser extent Prince to King.

    Just stop trying to build ancient & classical era world wonders.
    And I'd also recommend tall (Tradition) over (settle wide) Liberty. Happiness is the main limit on growth and Tradition has a lot more happiness bonuses than Liberty.
    With tradition you can still attach a puppet empire to it later.
     
  10. isau

    isau Deity

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    I agree that Emperor to Immortal a bigger jump than King to Emperor. Immortal is the first difficulty where the AI has a chance to really swamp you with units. My first few games I underestimated how many units enemies would produce and paid a hefty price for it. That said, a lot of the difficulty depends on the civ you pick. Anyone science-y like Korea or Babylon is going to be a lot easier than Denmark.

    Picking something other than Tradition for an opener IMO increases difficulty by more than the step between King and Emperor.

    Also remember that all difficulties are soon/now somewhat harder than when BNW first launched because of the Consulates nerf.
     
  11. DarthSheldonPhD

    DarthSheldonPhD Warlord

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    Fewer wonders, more units, streamlined infrastructure, more micromanaging, closer attention to diplomacy, and oh yeah, fewer mistakes :p Most of this is self-explanatory, regarding streamlining your infrastructure, I found that prince->king was the jump where I began to need to apply my warlord->prince philosophy regarding wonder selection (sure it would help, and I want it, but do I need it?) to building selection. The capital usually needs all the buildings, and buying them the turn they become available (particularly science buildings from uni's on) is one of the best ways to use gold surpluses. Other cities, not so much. Having just made the move to BNW, this particularly applies to culture buildings: with all culture buildings now only providing 1 culture (with the potential for more if they ever get a great work in there, but let's face it, they won't) and still costing 1 maintenance, monuments are the only cultural buildings needed as they pop borders. gold buildings are great as they are maintenance-free and always add some gold, but with the other priorities that you have, there's often something more beneficial to build until the city is making at least 7GPT (7+1(market) = 8 +25% = 10, hence market = 3GPT, more as it makes more). Growth buildings certainly help, and I'm all about growth, Monty's been my favorite civ since vanilla, but growth buildings are a gamble. There's obvious exeptions to all the above (UB's, Izzy with NW's etc., as well as gold buildings to get yourself out of the red), just use your head and ask yourself whenever you're making something other than a unit or trade unit, "Do I need this?"

    Regarding the OP, it sounds like you prefer domination games, and I find that King->Emporer is the level where I needed to play more nasty for dom wins. It's no longer about building a huge army and marching them onto your victim. Now it's about keeping that army mobile and ready, paying attention to when a neighbor gets into a war with a civ on the opposite side from you, waiting 5-8 turns for them to move their army in the opposite direction, and only then storming their lands when there's 1/5 the resistance present. I don't know if you're playing G&K or BNW, but as I'm just adjusting to BNW, I'm finding that I need to turtle a while longer and build up before engaging; maybe I just haven't figured out all the tricks yet. Any advice beyond that would require an overview of your play, there's lots of tricks found here in the forum, like mass building/buying units before their upgrade becomes available and then mass-upgrading. This is particularly effective with archer->Cbows. Can't wait to try out Shaka and insta-upgrade a dozen impi. Getting off track, point is that's one of hundreds of tricks that are found here that will make the transition easier.
     
  12. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

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    I don't think is a big jump, but in BNW AI get 3 free techs in emperor and 1 in king. Nevertheless is a much smaller jump that emperor to immortal.

    I agree map/civ do a lot in difficulty. Play arabia or poland, and you lower the difficulty. Smaller maps are also easier to handle.

    Maybe a good idea y to move on and lower the map size by one, that way it will hurt less if it even hurts at all.
     
  13. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Warlord

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    One of the big problems of king - emperor is it starts to be the tipping point where early wonders can put you in trouble. Of course, a good player can pull off picking up the early wonders and staying in good shape, but if you are just moving up a good strategy would be to avoid wonders in the first few eras all together.

    In my opinion when you move up difficulty, the early turns should be focused on surviving through to national college with a decent army, decent growth and a few solid cities (number depending on map). At this point you should be in a good spot to work towards your chosen VC.
     
  14. Syntax Error

    Syntax Error Prince

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    I managed to get 1600 CPT in my first BNW game, was only at King though, just to dick around with the new systems. Ended up winning cultural at turn 298 as China. At one point, I had to scramble for The Louvre or settle another city, because I had 3 Archaeologists already digging and I have no more artifact slots.

    OT:
    The basis for improved play is city micromanagement. Knowing the tipping point of when to go all out for growth or eke out a turn or two of production for a critical unit/building/wonder will help you out a lot. I'm an Emperor player myself, and I just prioritize food up until the late teens for most cities. If a city will become a very populous one, it can be designated as a science city and will prioritize food above all else. This city is usually your capital. Oh, and make good use of the trade route system. It will allow you to boost cities quite early.
     
  15. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    When you go up a level you can help for the first few games by rigging the settings in your favour e.g. polynesia on archipelago, and also reroll starts until you get a good one. If you are competent on king then emperor and soon immortal aren't out of reach.
     
  16. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    This. This is easily the biggest jump I have noticed between difficulty levels. And maybe Warlord to Prince.
     
  17. Pepo

    Pepo Prince

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    Depend if you micro a lot .basically is making less mistakes and have a good start point
     
  18. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    Yes, King to emperor is a big jump, though not as big as emp to immortal or immortal to deity. King to emperor is the first one that starts to seem a little "unfair."
     
  19. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    Whether it is a big leap will depend on your playing style. What has to be remembered is that increasing the difficulty level simply increases the bonuses the AI gets, the AI does not play smarter than before - it simply has more to beat you with.

    As mentioned already starting position and your neigbours will have a big effect, if you are next to expansionist/warmongers then you will have little choice to focus on the military early on and in the meantime science focused AI civs can pull out quite a large tech lead that can be difficult to overcome.

    In my experience the settings you choose will be a big factor as to how difficult this jump will be. I have found each jump to the next level challenging, as a result I will reduce the number of AI and map size at first. Also the water based maps can make things a little easier.

    For me king is easy in the sense I will expect to win, emperor is challenging (I need to improve my mid-late game). But once you regularly defeat a difficulty level it makes the previous levels almost trivial.
     
  20. Ximixanga

    Ximixanga Enlightened Despot

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    I can win consistently on King now, although every now and then I get blindsided by a surprise difficulty increment that rivals the early game towards the endgame where more and more things come into play. I am trying to move onto emperor but I keep getting my butt kicked fairly early and can't catch up or match the AI as quickly as I could or as effectively as I could. It was like this when I was moving from Prince to King but I didn't struggle nearly as much then. I never, ever relied on getting TGL or early NC, although I am fond of snatching up at least 2-3 early wonders like Pyramids or Hanging Gardens.

    On Emperor, I find that the strategy that moved me up from Prince to King no longer applies and that my decisions carry a lot more weight. Although I like this increase in challenge and decision-making, it does throw me in for a loop when I can't get solid footing. More than previous difficulties, your starting position makes much more of a difference, as does your Civ's UA. I have a hunch that Babylon is the go-to Civ for higher difficulties just so you don't have to deal as much with the science bonus the AI gets at the start. Some of the 'weaker' Civs also start showing their weakness much more strongly at this stage and should probably be put aside unless you're ready to make a greater effort to win than you'd like to.

    So other than re-rolling the map until you have a start that's better than decent or playing an inherently strong civ or one that counters some of the AI's advantages, what can be done to move up gracefully from King to Emperor? Stacking map settings to your chosen Civ is not a legitimate strategy, in my opinion, although you probably won't get any use out of naval Civs on an oceanless map either.
     

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