Is the Bin Laden video for real?

[Zwelgje]

I'll probably get my butt kicked for this question but I need to ask. In the media over here in the Netherlands people are more and more wondering if the video in which Bin Laden confesses he committed the bombings of the WTC is real. There are suggestions that the US made it as sort of propaganda. What are your views on this subject?

I need to say (before somebody gets overheated here) that I do believe that Bin Laden is responsible I just doubt that the video is real. Why would Bin Laden have such a video made and not send it to Al-Jazeera, it would have made him an even bigger hero in the middle east than he already is.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Probably Osama intended to keep it as some kind of record or momento, or maybe he intended to send it to al-Jazeera, eventually. Then the Taliban collapsed so fast, he got no time to bring it with him, so it got left behind and was eventually picked up by the Americans.

This is a very serious issue and I think the American govt is smart enough not to fool around with the evidence. Yes, I think we can trust the authenticity of the tape. The consequences for being found out for faking the tape would be too damaging for the Bush administration to risk falsifying evidence. I mean, we have pretty much establish Osama as the mastermind behind 911. No need to come out with such a falsified tape to convince people.

 

[Smash]

...um...I guess.
Seems kinda odd it would be left laying around.Seems a rather strange thing to be video taping.Some guys sitting around admitting guilt!?....I'd like to know more......

 

[Knight-Dragon]

It seems to fit Osama's mega-ego to me. And he isn't exactly sane or normal or would act like a normal person if you ask me ..... Maybe some overzealous aide secretly taped it.

 

[Gruntboy]

He craves to go down in History. How can people write about him if there's no evidence?

 

[IceBlaZe]

I cant really judge, maybe this tape is real but it does look suspicious.
USA said they found the tape and that they will show it but a day after they postponed it saying they had translation problems.
Seems suspicious to me, quite foolish of them to say they will air it 'today' when they didnt even translate it - therfor they didnt know what he says in them - therfor why air it anyway if they dont know whats in it?!
And about the translation - USA had it translated with in a day or two with their rented 'objective' translators, but no other translater rented by any news crew, here in israel or even CNN's managed to even understand 2 straight words of what they are saying.
So from that, if we are suspicious we can persume either USA made the sound not good (if so - why?), so other ppl cant understand, or either it was not understandable in first place and USA just made up all the context of the film, and they just produced the context in a way its believble to all of the WESTERN world AND shows well enough how guilty and a beast bin laden is.
We saw bin ladens tapes - they were all photoed in caves, with guns near him, dont you think that after the terror acts if he knew he was guilty and that USA is guilty he would immediately goto his secret caves and photo the confession and his ego-maniacy there, and even show it to everyone on purpose?
Then again - its all just theories
I think the tape is true,but this suspicouns are also interesting

 

[PinkyGen]

Do you realize what absolute sh*t would happen if people found out it was faked? It would be the end of Bush, that's for certain, and most likely we would be to ashamed to continue to hunt terrorists.

It's obviously real. I don't think it's made for public consumption though. I think it's an advertisement tape made to recruit new members to the "cause".

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by PinkyGen
Do you realize what absolute sh*t would happen if people found out it was faked? It would be the end of Bush, that's for certain, and most likely we would be to ashamed to continue to hunt terrorists.

It's obviously real. I don't think it's made for public consumption though. I think it's an advertisement tape made to recruit new members to the "cause".

Even bin Laden isn't so crazy that he would believe that killing thousands of innocent people will recruit new members.

It's interesting the way how UBL talks in tape --- maybe he has some disease, he speaks
so strangely (comparing to other tapes)

And who would even think that it would be faked after this propaganda-#"¤¤ what has been happened
in USA. Bush is god. Bush is good. Taleban is mad. Taleban is bad. Nobody likes Taliban.
Northern Alliance is good. NA has full people support. Talebans are foreign, and have no democratic support...

 

[DoorFrame]

The tape is probably not a fake, here's why:

Can anyone honestly think of a good reason why the US government would release a falsified tape NOW (now that war in Afghanistan is essentially completed) months after it would have been useful in creating an international impact?

***
If the government was going to release a false tape, wouldn't they have done so BEFORE going to war? If you want to use this fake tape for good press, you usually do so when the press matters, not after the international press is made irrelevant by action.
***

If anyone can think of a good explanation for this, I'd be willing to listen.

 

[G-Man]

Bin Laden prbably wanted to use it for propoganda. Remember before the attacks on Afghanistan started there were these videos sold in Pakistan of al-qaida fighter training? Same thing. He probably thought that he'll survie this American retaliation against him like he did before and then he'll release the tape. The Americans, that according to his plan were already supposed to finish their attacks wouldn't do anything else and he'll gain support from extrimist across the muslim world for fighting the "big devil". I'm 99% sure this tape is real. I'm just not sure if Bin Laden recorded it in "real time" or if he faked it later.

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by DoorFrame
The tape is probably not a fake, here's why:

Can anyone honestly think of a good reason why the US government would release a falsified tape NOW (now that war in Afghanistan is essentially completed) months after it would have been useful in creating an international impact?

***
If the government was going to release a false tape, wouldn't they have done so BEFORE going to war? If you want to use this fake tape for good press, you usually do so when the press matters, not after the international press is made irrelevant by action.
***

If anyone can think of a good explanation for this, I'd be willing to listen.

Maybe these are the 'proves' that UBL has 'certainly' destroyed wtc?
Hope not. Then this goes from uncertain war on terrorism to patheticly
defended war with baddies for popularity.

 

[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by Juize


Even bin Laden isn't so crazy that he would believe that killing thousands of innocent people will recruit new members.

It's interesting the way how UBL talks in tape --- maybe he has some disease, he speaks
so strangely (comparing to other tapes)

And who would even think that it would be faked after this propaganda-#"¤¤ what has been happened
in USA. Bush is god. Bush is good. Taleban is mad. Taleban is bad. Nobody likes Taliban.
Northern Alliance is good. NA has full people support. Talebans are foreign, and have no democratic support...

I don't think its so crazy from Bin Laden's point of view. He is famous for fighting the Americans, and the more high profile he becomes, the more recruits he can get. Look at all those pro-Osama merchandise that was being sold after the attacks in countries like Pakistan. The reason the pro-Osama rallies have stopped is because he is obviously losing, so people don't support him. He is right in saying "People back the stronger horse." It's just that his horse is looking weak now.

As for US propoganda, I don't think it's so obvious as you put it. I do believe the Taliban are bad. I don't really see the line "Bush is god" being spoken, and he gets support mainly from people who supported him before, which is half the country.
Anyway's there is a difference spin and straight out forgery.

 

[goodyhut]

My brother speaks fluent Arabic and he says the tape is for real, and he was not convinced that Bin Laden was responable for 9/11 previously.

 

[VoodooAce]

Well, I feel it's probably real.

The translators the administration used (some 20 of them), when they couldn't find an exact translation, probably took some 'liberties' with it.

What I find hilarious on one hand, and insulting to my inteligence on the other, is the timing. For one, Duh-bya (the emphasis is on Duh, lol) issued it on the same day that he dumped an international treaty.

I also am sure that the Bush administration will use the same method used by Chandra Levy's parents (remember them?) We'll get a regular stream of new evidence, tapes, etc., to keep support strong and our minds off of his ignorant domestic screw-ups.....and Enron

 

[bvd]

Well, Juize, Bin Laden does have Marfan Sydrome, which accounts for his gawky appearance...

and, no, the video wasn't fabricated. Though I'm not a photographic expert I'm sure that even (US) gov't agencies have lacked the technology, resolve and time to undertake such a convincing hoax. Also, can you account for the appearance of the Saudi cleric; how could we have randomly selected such an obscure and poorly documented individual and used him as a patsy?

Is there one credible treatise that questions the tape's origin?

The more reasonable argument is that Bin Laden himself is bluffing and the videotape is a fib. Since there is additional evidence that indicates al-Queda's complicity and none suggesting otherwise, we must make the more rational assumption.

Aphorism: you have to be skeptical of the skeptics, too. How true that is; there are countless millions of creationists, holocaust revisionists and, yes, people who insist that the Apollo program was a sham even in the new century.

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by bvd
Well, Juize, Bin Laden does have Marfan Sydrome, which accounts for his gawky appearance...

and, no, the video wasn't fabricated. Though I'm not a photographic expert I'm sure that even (US) gov't agencies have lacked the technology, resolve and time to undertake such a convincing hoax. Also, can you account for the appearance of the Saudi cleric; how could we have randomly selected such an obscure and poorly documented individual and used him as a patsy?

Is there one credible treatise that questions the tape's origin?

The more reasonable argument is that Bin Laden himself is bluffing and the videotape is a fib. Since there is additional evidence that indicates al-Queda's complicity and none suggesting otherwise, we must make the more rational assumption.

Aphorism: you have to be skeptical of the skeptics, too. How true that is; there are countless millions of creationists, holocaust revisionists and, yes, people who insist that the Apollo program was a sham even in the new century.

What I mean, that somebody language expert could've just dubbed it
with new talk. Just listen the video again -- He talks like he would have an astma -
soo quiet and deep.

 

[IceBlaZe]

No1 really ever questioned the tape on the news, the CNN and some other news channels just mentioned 'Its untransalatble for our crew' or things like that, and maybe that was what USA was counting on.
but im sick of conspiracy thought, because 85% of them turn out not to be true so lets just say the tape is for real
just dont forget a lot of the tapes about the attacks in Iraq were also work of the holywoodian washington crew

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Juize
Bush is good. Taleban is bad.

Bush IS a good person, and the Taliban is bad. We, America and our Allies, are the good -- all that is decent and civil in the world.

The Taliban is evil.

This is not propaganda, this is simply the truth, and whether you choose to accept it is your own responsibility.

 

[BlueMonday]

I'm in the middle ground here. Although I have no doubt that Usama Bin Laden is behind the murder, the video tape is just so...so...perfect. Of course, I'm in no place to decide whether or not the tape is fake. I'm not a video analyst, I haven't even worked with motion picture photography (only black and white photos). Even if I had the expertise to determine whether or not it was fake I've only seen the eight second sound bytes of it you see on the news.

From what I've seen, it looks real, it looks like Usama, it's just that it's almost too good to be true. Here we are all this time with that little voice in the back of our minds wondering if it really is Usama, and then all of a sudden there it is.

But once again, I'm in no position to determine whether it is or is not real...nor are any of you. I think we should leave the debate over the tape to the Defense Attorney and his expert witnesses...if Usama lives that long.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I have a little anekdote's on this.

This i read in a Belgium Magazine. (MaoMagazine)
It's a story that happend in kroatia or bosnia (not sure ,it's a long time since i read the story) some years ago.
It's not a viable argument (i surely can't prove it) ,i'm just telling it how this magazine wrote it.
On a particular day ,some american soldier's that were phone-tapping the telephone line's heard a conversation of 2 boy's around 20 years old in their native language.The american translator's tanslated particular word's in the coversation to (what they thought was) "shoot" and "attack".Promptly ,a small task force brutaly took the boy's out of there home's,ravaging the home's in searche's and tottaly freithning their family's.They kept the boy's for three day's in a millitary installation where they practicly tortured the boy's so that they would admit thing's that hadn't done.But under pressure of the family's ,it came to the notice that the conversation's were actually wrongly translated.The boy's had actually been talking about football.
but that story has been kept quit by the american's there presurring the local media.the magazine got that story from a local UNHCR worker and the family's/boys themself's.

Anyway ,i have all the issue's of that magezine in my collection.but i don't know the date of when that was written.
That magazine (quite a good one) has to stop on the end of this year. They are making the last issue right now.
And that while we have countless tv magazine's or lifestyle magazine's.

It's very hard to find some unpropagandize'd information source these day's.