Is the muslim faith/way of life in the middle east as similar to when it started?

[Xanikk999]

And also ---> as compared to christianity! (Title to long).

I know christianit has evolved a lot since the catholic church got around. Catholics dont go on crusades to the middle east anymore (Thank god! ) and now the catholic church endorses evolution!

So is the islamic way of life more or less the same is it was back when muhammod converted them? I know islam hasnt changed its restrictions as much as christianity though.

 

[King Alexander]

I don't think Islam ever had it's "renainsance"/revolt, but it still is in it's Dark Ages.
Of course, to fight the medieval christian priests wasn't and easy task as well for the western world.

 

[Masquerouge]

And also ---> as compared to christianity! (Title to long).

I know christianit has evolved a lot since the catholic church got around. Catholics dont go on crusades to the middle east anymore (Thank god! ) and now the catholic church endorses evolution!

So is the islamic way of life more or less the same is it was back when muhammod converted them? I know islam hasnt changed its restrictions as much as christianity though.

Well Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. And the main changes in Christianity occured during the first centuries (I'll say up to Nicae, but that's arbitratry) and in the latest ones.

One other interesting question is : has Judaism evolved ? Or Buddhism ? They're much older than both Christianity and Islam.

 

[Xanikk999]

I don't think Islam ever had it's "renainsance"/revolt, but it still is in it's Dark Ages.
Of course, to fight the medieval christian priests wasn't and easy task as well for the western world.

I have to admit that during the middle ages the islamic world was much more advanced then the europeans in almost every aspect.

Cairo for example a city under saladin had free hospitals a newspaper service and running water.

 

[King Alexander]

@Xanikk999: yes, they were more advanced than any western country during the Dark Ages, but that was it and they haven't doen anything specific from then(ok, the last two centuries they were conquered by western countries...speaking for a setback)

 

[GenMarshall]

Why all of a sudden a barage of religious threads

 

[Xanikk999]

Why all of a sudden a barage of religious threads

Its always been the hot topic in CFC has it not?

I dont hate religion i actually find it interesting. I am very interested in mythology also and i read about religion on wikipedia.

 

[GenMarshall]

Its always been the hot topic in CFC has it not?.

Well I have not seen this many threads about a hot topic since the great mass of homosexual threads poping in OT

 

[Verbose]

And also ---> as compared to christianity! (Title to long).

I know christianit has evolved a lot since the catholic church got around. Catholics dont go on crusades to the middle east anymore (Thank god! ) and now the catholic church endorses evolution!

So is the islamic way of life more or less the same is it was back when muhammod converted them? I know islam hasnt changed its restrictions as much as christianity though.

No it isn't.

The differences between the kind of society in Arabia where Islam first evolved and the society the Caliphathe ruled over were huge.

And then the Turks upset the political scales no end and the ensuing near millenium of upper-class slave-states were very different from the Caliphate.

And believe it or not, but the experience of European interference brought some massive changes, beginning with Napoleons occupation of Egypt, and ongoing...

Just look at Ottoman society and what we have today in Turkey and the former Ottoman lands. Massive change all over.
Not to mention the utter transformation in all kinds of directions of Iranian society. It's nothing like the old kingdom that started modernising itself in the late 19th c. All aspects of it aren't palatable to western sensibilities, but it's all spanking NEW.

 

[Savas cafe]

And also ---> as compared to christianity! (Title to long).

I know christianit has evolved a lot since the catholic church got around. Catholics dont go on crusades to the middle east anymore (Thank god! ) and now the catholic church endorses evolution!

So is the islamic way of life more or less the same is it was back when muhammod converted them? I know islam hasnt changed its restrictions as much as christianity though.

Hi,

you do know of course that christianity and catholicism are not one and the same, the later being a (big) part of the former. The Orthodox Church still does not endorses evolution (at least not officially).
As far as Catholics (Christians, in general) not going on crusades to the middle east anymore, I am afraid that some people in Turkey, Iraq and (as of last week) Iran may think otherwise...

 

[Inqvisitor]

I know christianit has evolved a lot since the catholic church got around. Catholics dont go on crusades to the middle east anymore (Thank god! ) and now the catholic church endorses evolution!

The Orthodox Church still does not endorses evolution (at least not officially).

The Catholic Church does not officially "endorse" evolution either. In twentieth century permission was granted for scientific inquiry on the issue under carefully set guidelines by the Church, as opposed to total condemnation.

I don't see why religious beliefs changing must be in any way connected to an overall change in way of life. Things change regardless of religions. If a religion is true, it would not have its immutable truths altered. Christianity has certainly not in anyway "evolved." More it has progressed forward toward the state of fulfillment God intended for it.

Like Protestantism, Islam has no central body to defend traditional doctrine, thus resulting in all of its many varying (and conflicting) beliefs that have developed since its founding.

 

[kingjoshi]

Steven Colbert had Reza Aslan and I liked how he said Osama could be the Islamic version of Martin Luther. I might get his book, the guy had some interesting things to say.

 

[GenMarshall]

The Catholic Church does not officially "endorse" evolution either. In twentieth century permission was granted for scientific inquiry on the issue under carefully set guidelines by the Church, as opposed to total condemnation.

I am afraid that you are wrong on that one and still traped in Catholicism of Pope Pius IX and the pre-Vatican II world.

"We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the 'project' of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary -- rather than mutually exclusive -- realities." (Cardinal Ratzinger, In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall [Eerdmans, 1986, 1995], see especially pages 41-58)

But we can have this debate in the creationist thread .

I don't see why religious beliefs changing must be in any way connected to an overall change in way of life. Things change regardless of religions. If a religion is true, it would not have its immutable truths altered. Christianity has certainly not in anyway "evolved." More it has progressed forward toward the state of fulfillment God intended for it.

Newsflash, even the Catholic Church changed after Vatican II. So in a sense, Christianity and Catholicism have "evolved" to keep up with the times. Though they still kept male only priesthood, no artificial contraceptives, pro-life, and against same gender marrages.

Like Protestantism, Islam has no central body to defend traditional doctrine, thus resulting in all of its many varying (and conflicting) beliefs that have developed since its founding.

So you are saying that Islam has no central authority? I may not be an expert in Islam though I bet many Muslim posters in this thread would say that there is a central authority in Islam that creates doctrines of the Muslim faith.

 

[warpus]

The Catholic Church does not officially "endorse" evolution either.

Sure it does.

On October 22, 1996 Pope John Paul said the following:

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies -- which was neither planned nor sought -- constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

If that's not an endorsement of evolution, I don't know what is!!

 

[Inqvisitor]

I am afraid that you are wrong on that one and still traped in Catholicism of Pope Pius IX and the pre-Vatican II world.


But we can have this debate in the creationist thread .

Yes, actually I'm talking about Pope Pius XII (1939-1958); Pius IX would likely not even have entertained the thought.

Newsflash, even the Catholic Church changed after Vatican II. So in a sense, Christianity and Catholicism have "evolved" to keep up with the times. Though they still kept male only priesthood, no artificial contraceptives, pro-life, and against same gender marrages.

The Catholic Church is considered "Semper Eadem"- always the same.

Papal Oath Taken By All Popes from Pope St. Agatho I (A.D. 681) to Paul VI (A.D. 1963):
I vow to change nothing of the received Tradition, and nothing thereof I have found before me guarded by my God-pleasing predecessors, to encroach upon, to alter, or to permit any innovation therein;

To the contrary: with glowing affection as her truly faithful student and successor, to safeguard reverently the passed-on good, with my whole strength and utmost effort;

To cleanse all that is in contradiction to the canonical order, should such appear;

To guard the Holy Canons and Decrees of our Popes as if they were the Divine ordinances of Heaven, because I am conscious of Thee, whose place I take through the Grace of God, whose Vicarship I possess with Thy support, being subject to the severest accounting before Thy Divine Tribunal over all that I shall confess;

I swear to God Almighty and the Savior Jesus Christ that I will keep whatever has been revealed through Christ and His Successors and whatever the first councils and my predecessors have defined and declared.

I will keep without sacrifice to itself the discipline and the rite of the Church. I will put outside the Church whoever dares to go against this oath, may it be somebody else or I.

If I should undertake to act in anything of contrary sense, or should permit that it will be executed, Thou willst not be merciful to me on the dreadful Day of Divine Justice.

Accordingly, without exclusion, We subject to severest excommunication anyone -- be it ourselves or be it another -- who would dare to undertake anything new in contradiction to this constituted evangelic Tradition and the purity of the Orthodox Faith and the Christian Religion, or would seek to change anything by his opposing efforts, or would agree with those who undertake such a blasphemous venture.
(Liber Diurnus Romanorum Pontificum, Patrologia Latina 1005, S. 54)

So you are saying that Islam has no central authority? I may not be an expert in Islam though I bet many Muslim posters in this thread would say that there is a central authority in Islam that creates doctrines of the Muslim faith.

Catholicism is unique amongst the world religions in having a central authority, Rome.

 

[GenMarshall]

Sure it does.

If that's not an endorsement of evolution, I don't know what is!!

Surely we can argue this in a creation vs evolution form. This is not the thread to do it in. (I am a Catholic and I agree with your statement anyway )

Just to give you a heads up anyway .

 

[Inqvisitor]

Sure it does.

On October 22, 1996 Pope John Paul said the following:


If that's not an endorsement of evolution, I don't know what is!!

Selective quoting by John Paul II, that very encyclical of Pius XII supports what I have said here. Study of evolution is legal, but not endorsed.

For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter -- for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faithful. Some however rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from preexisting and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question....

If anyone examines the state of affairs outside the Christian fold, he will easily discover the principal trends that not a few learned men are following. Some imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution, which has not been fully proved even in the domain of natural sciences, explains the origin of all this, and audaciously support the monistic and pantheistic opinion that the world is in continual evolution. Communists gladly subscribe to this opinion so that, when the souls of men have been deprived of every idea of a personal God, they may the more efficaciously defend and propagate their dialectical materialism.
--Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis​

But this is now derailing this thread, no...?

 

[GenMarshall]

The Catholic Church is considered "Semper Eadem"- always the same.

If the Catholic Church is the same as in the middle/dark ages. Then how come there are no inquisitors out hunting down heretics? How come there are no modern popes calling for a crusade in the middle east? If the Church is always the same, then there would still be inquisitors running around burning people.

Papal Oath Taken By All Popes from Pope St. Agatho I (A.D. 681) to Paul VI (A.D. 1963)

So by your logic, All popes after Paul VI who did not made the Papal Oath and have their corrination are considered antipopes to you? .

Catholicism is unique amongst the world religions in having a central authority, Rome.

Judaism once had a central authority in Jerusalem in the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

Buddahism, mainly the Tibetan Buddhism, has a central authority (though weak in power due to the influences of the Chinese Government).

Surely there is a Islamic Central Authority. Why they even have a listings of ranks as with Christianity. Islamic Religious Leaders

 

[Inqvisitor]

If the Catholic Church is the same as in the middle/dark ages. Then how come there are no inquisitors out hunting down heretics? How come there are no modern popes calling for a crusade in the middle east? If the Church is always the same, then there would still be inquisitors running around burning people.

Inquisitors burning people...?
Please drop the anti-Catholic propaganda; its really not necessary here.

Judaism once had a central authority in Jerusalem in the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

Buddahism, mainly the Tibetan Buddhism, has a central authority (though weak in power due to the influences of the Chinese Government).

Surely there is a Islamic Central Authority. Why they even have a listings of ranks as with Christianity. Islamic Religious Leaders

It is probably not your fault, but lack of proper religious education...
You are failing to realize the unique power of Rome, the Sacred Magisterium, and the Roman Curia. No other religion on earth has such a strong central authority which maintains unity of faith like no other.

What is the obsession with syncretism? You seem be quite persistent in age-old anti-Catholic polemics...

 

[GenMarshall]

It is probably not your fault, but lack of proper religious education...

I fell out of the Catholic Church at a young age of six. Only vaguly remember going to CCD classes. Never made first communion, never made it to confirmation, and never made it to first confession.

You are failing to realize the unique power of Rome, the Sacred Magisterium, and the Roman Curia. No other religion on earth has such a strong central authority which maintains unity of faith like no other.

And the infallibility of eumenical councils dont mean a thing?

What is the obsession with syncretism? You seem be quite persistent in age-old anti-Catholic polemics...

Firstly, I am not obsessed with syncretism. I am a mainstream Catholic who veiws The Vatican II as infallible as well as the infallibility of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. I am a Catholic who accepted the realities of the modern Church in a post-Vatican II world.

Secondly, I am not anti-Catholic. I view the pope as the leader of the Christian church as well as believe in transubstiation. Being anti-Catholic is not one of them, I am just a Catholic who accepted the realities of the Church after the Second Vatican Council.