Is the SGA Really Broken?

[Aabraxan]

. . . . The dates show the turns where ı was able to make a move , ı mean the computer does a lot of things , ı soon as ı am called to make a choice of sciences ı take notice of the year . . . .

From the above, it sounds like you might not have "Always wait at end of turn" checked in your preferences. Checking that box will ensure that you stop at the end of every turn & might make testing this easier.

. . . .
1295 Music theory chosen 4 turns remaining leader used before music theory

1315 Printing 4 turns remaining

1335 Economics 6 turns

1360 or 65 Navigation 6 turns

1390 Democracy 7 turns

1395 Democracy 7 turns (again) confuses me as well

1400 Democracy 8 turns science advisor tells the age is over

*****

1295 Music theory 5 turns no leader

1300 think it was in this turn the end of previous age was announced

1315 Printing 5 turns
ı thought of giving up as it is the same with the one above .

1340 Economics 8 turns

1380 Navigation 8 turns

1400 Navigation 5 turns

1420 Democracy 9 turns

Again, I'm guessing that this is a result of not having "Always wait" checked. By checking that box, you can see how many turns remain on each and every turn. If your SGA is indeed broken, and I think it is, you'll see several turns repeat the time remaining, such as "1380 AD, 8 turns remaining," and then "1385, 8 turns remaining." It looks to me like that's exactly what you've gotten, though.

If you want to test it further, I'd suggest, "controlling for other variables," as Spoonwood calls it. Scrap any and all builds & put everyone on wealth. Libraries & unis will affect beakers, and any other buildings or troops will affect the treasury, and could affect science spending. Go through your cities and zero out growth, so that your cities neither grow nor shrink during the SGA. Abandon that city that flips (it flipped during my test, too). Cut lux spending to the barest needed to avoid riots. I don't recall if I had any WLTKDs during my test, but that could affect beakers, as well.

I think you'll find that your SGA, like everyone else's, is broken. If not, and you find that the blasted things works for you, enjoy it!

. . . . as ı previously said it is not binding in anyway . It is only natural that ı would have the numbers , any numbers in case of dishonesty . Internet is full of false evidence and there are many who are chest thumping with falsities to boost their self esteem .

I haven't seen anyone here call you dishonest. It just doesn't seem like you've seen the things that have been pointed out, namely, the fact that the number of turns remaining repeats itself. In my test, I had at least 3 turns where the number did repeat, and that was allowing for the possibility that the culture flip actually did add a turn to the time remaining on Physics.

. . . . Also, we'd really like to see saves. Saves for each turn of the scientific golden age would really work best. If you're right r16, then it would appear that the number of turns left on a tech in an SGA IS BROKEN, but the actual number of turns for techs in an SGA is not. This has not gotten established though.

His saves are here. If you're interested, I tested his saves once and my initial post on that was here.

 

[vmxa]

Can we either put this to rest or move it. Here is the definitive answer to the SGA, it is broken. I will show you in your game now.

First the game has something wrong with it, which I will ignore. I say this as I mentioned long ago it will not load in Seedbeast or in CAII. It is 180x180 map, so it is not a std map size either.

Now on with the replay.

I did nothing other than move a few troops to towns that may be were going to get a sneak attack. That may have confused things, if the towns were lost or troops lost. So I just discouraged any attacks.

I did nothing with workers or builds. If a town finished something I put it on a build that would not finish during the test.

Note that CAII does not have a flag for SGA. This is due to the fact that there really is no such thing.

1295AD making 21bpt with 1097 accumulated at 10%.
bump to 50% now 135bpt and Mag drops to 5 turns.
SGA started and still 135bpt and the game now says 4 turns.

1300AD 1229 134bpt 3 turns note a lib finished.
1305AD 1360 134bpt 3 turns
1310AD 1491 135bpt 2 turns
1315AD 1623 136bpt 1 turn

So right away we see the SGA did not really reduce the break through by the 1 turn is depicted. CAII shows the correct finish. Note that not a single extra beaker goes into the tally during the entire SGA. In fact a few beakers are lost each turn, presumably to rounding.

1320AD start Mag 11 turns per the game screen, 14 per CAII. Still 136bpt.
1325AD 11 turns 136bpt (13 per CAII) a lib done.
1330AD 10 turns 137bpt (12.
1335AD 9 turns 137bpt (11.
1340AD 8 turns 137bpt (10.
1345AD 7 turns 137bpt (9.
1350AD 7 turns 138bpt (8.
1355AD 6 turns 139bpt (7.
1360AD 5 turns 141bpt (6.
1365AD 4 turns 141bpt (5.
1370AD 3 turns 141bpt (4.
1375AD 2 turns 141bpt (3.
1380AD 2 turns 141bpt (2.

As you can see were are again getting double reporting of the turns (7 and 2) to the point that the game finally reflects what CAII has been telling you all along. We are now 13 turns into what was stated as an 11 turn research.

CA said it was 14 turns and that is correct, refuting any claim of a working SGA. Please do not waste our time with this nonsense.

 

[r16]

ı have been dishonest on some other forums and ı am calling myself anything that might be required .

ı have no intention of challenging anyone on something they really know or wasting their time . What do ı gain ? Respect , fame ? Will try it again and put this to rest in any case as it seems it will never show up elsewhere , but the intention was to better understand a thing that gave a advantage in sciences found .With the illusion on ı started researching democracy in 1390 , without in 1420 . OK , really no problem . Will enjoy it myself if it is the case . And if it is not -maybe because of not waiting at the end of turns as ı know cases where ı move stacks of 20 plus workers and at times the computer ends the turn before ı can work half of them - that is one more thing learned , ı haven't lost anything . Sorry for any inconveniance .

 

[TheOverseer714]

Agree to disagree and move on. One could start their own thread to hash something like this out in a way that lets the rest of us avoid the unpleasant bickering. Let us resume normal business.

 

[vmxa]

I don't know about any unpleasantness or bickering, just an attempt to clearify, not for r16, but for the next person. I do agree it should be moved to its own thread, but maybe a resolution can be had.

"the intention was to better understand a thing that gave a advantage in sciences found .With the illusion on ı started researching democracy in 1390 , without in 1420 ."

All that is need to start the next tech sooner was to increase the slider or the beakers per turn. I think Mag could have been learned in 5 or 6 turns as I recall. Anyway I think my table shows as clear as can be done that no additional beakers were ever added during the SGA and that the break through did not occur when the SGA claimed it would.

That is exactly what was reported years ago and flagged as a known bug. Your game is not any different than any other game. The SGA reports to all that the tech will be done sooner, but is never done in that time frame, unless further action is taken. That action is the bpt is increased, by one means or another.

I hope that explains the workings, if not I give up. Good luck.

 

[TheOverseer714]

You want a golden age of science? Win a battle with your UU, start an overall golden age, and watch your science notch up. Use an SGL for an SGA, get the illusion of one. It may have been nerfed due to balance reasons, or more likely, botched by the programmers. But do what you want, it's your game. Case closed.

 

[Padma]

Moderator Action: Split from 'Quick Answers'.

 

[eldar]

What's really sad is that this has been broken since the 1.00 release of C3C and is probably a very simple fix, i.e. in pseudo-code adding something like:

if (sga_flag = true) { beakers = beakers * sga_beaker_boost; }

(Which is obviously put in place when it calculates the number of turns, just not when it works out the actual beakers going to the tech. The mind boggles. I hope the guy who forgot that line of code isn't doing something critical nowadays.)

But then, the same could be said of many other issues in the 1.00 release that were never fixed, despite there being 3 or 4 different patches issued.

 

[Gamemaster77]

But where would you add that to?

 

[thetrooper]

But where would you add that to?

There's no way you'll get a tech for less than 4 turns - so the effect will be displayed as more accumulated gold.

 

[vmxa]

But where would you add that to?

Are you talking about the code mention by Trooper? If so, you can't, unless you have the source.

 

[Turner]

But where would you add that to?

I would add it in the part that accumulates your beakers every turn.

There's no way you'll get a tech for less than 4 turns - so the effect will be displayed as more accumulated gold.

Or have the code something like this:
{if sga=true then min_turns_tech = 1 else min_turns_tech = default_value_from_rules}
This is also editable in the editor, so you can make the min = 1 if you so desired. Of course, that would make a SGA kinda pointless, unless you had it early in the game when your tech wasn't so high.

 

[Gamemaster77]

I just bought Civilization 3 Complete a couple months ago and have a .sav where I just got a SGL. It does work on this. I don't know, mabye they fixed recently and most of you folks have an older version (just my guess). All of my cities get a 25% increase in beakers. Should I post the .sav although the SGL part is probably not stored in it?

 

[vmxa]

There is no newer version. The last patch was long ago, 1.22. It does not work for anyone on the planet. See post #23. The boost is a mirage, that is the point. It says it is doing it, but in the end you do not get any improvement.

 

[Aegis]

I have never found a SGA to work. After popping a SGA, I can set my science bar to learn a new tech in four turns (the quickest you can learn any tech). When that fourth turn comes, I'm still researching whatever it was I had set. Three turns later, I'm still researching the same tech that should have been completed three three turns earlier.

It does not work.

I use C3C: Patch 1.22 (Latest one)