Is there a lack of Native American and African wonders?

[Red Door]

Well First I have to tell you that that their are still lauguges that native in south amreica in fact the Incan language Quequea (it is spelled someting like that ) has 7 MILLION speakers TODAY!!! What I meant when I said Native America I meant ALL all of the Americas and besides the idea of being "Civalized" dose NOT exsit and is degradeing.Ok let me tell you somthing that you may or may not know that is the Natives manged to be able to farm in Rainforests yet we STILL can NOT do it to even today.The native not haveing metals???that is dumb the Incans knew how to work with Bronze and make them into wepons.If the Natives are so "primitive" why did the Inuets and Eskomo's manage to survive in Greenland. When the more "civalized" and "adnavanced" Norsemen tryied to Colinize Greenland they failed.

I want you to think abought these things before you label a group of people "primtive"

First off, I'm not trying to be offensive in my following comments.

The Natives of America are very primitive to the Europeans that came and conquered them. Look how quickly a lot of them fell. The Inuits and Eskimos survive because they live in a barren, godforsaken world that no one else would touch.

 

[chef pablo]

First off, I'm not trying to be offensive in my following comments.

The Natives of America are very primitive to the Europeans that came and conquered them. Look how quickly a lot of them fell. The Inuits and Eskimos survive because they live in a barren, godforsaken world that no one else would touch.

man you cant help but put your foot in your mouth can you ?half of the native population were dead even before the first musket shot,thanks to a little bug that the europeans brought with them,some tribes such as the mohawk were decimated by small pox and the common cold .If the situation was reversed im sure the indians would have been able to march into london and take it with stick and stone espeacialy if 90% of the population were sick or dying.

 

[onedreamer]

you guys have a funny concept of wonders. A monument is not a wonder.

 

[jimbob27]

This is just going to revive the whole canal-improvment discussions, but the panama and suez canals should qualify.

 

[Red Door]

man you cant help but put your foot in your mouth can you ?half of the native population were dead even before the first musket shot,thanks to a little bug that the europeans brought with them,some tribes such as the mohawk were decimated by small pox and the common cold .If the situation was reversed im sure the indians would have been able to march into london and take it with stick and stone espeacialy if 90% of the population were sick or dying.

Okay, let's say there is no germs. Even game, right? No!!!
You ever hear of a gun? It must be one of those European advances that the Native Americans didn't have.
The Europeans still would've conquered the Native Americans even without the germs.

Now, who's foot in whose mouth?

 

[Red Door]

This is just going to revive the whole canal-improvment discussions, but the panama and suez canals should qualify.

I think we're only talking about Native American and Native African wonders.

 

[chef pablo]

During the french indian war the french traded with the huron tribes and gave them muskets ,so they did have weapons,its simply that thier numbers were decimated.If they handnt brought all these nasty bugs with them it would have been a prime minister bohta situation for the eurpeans.

 

[Red Door]

During the french indian war the french traded with the huron tribes and gave them muskets ,so they did have weapons,its simply that thier numbers were decimated.If they handnt brought all these nasty bugs with them it would have been a prime minister bohta situation for the eurpeans.

I'm talking about when they first met and the Europeans started grabbing land. Not two hundred years later.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

****ALERT****

Pointless Argument In Progress
Threadjack Iminent
Abort Abort Abort!!!

 

[Cannae]

First off, I'm not trying to be offensive in my following comments.

The Natives of America are very primitive to the Europeans that came and conquered them. Look how quickly a lot of them fell. The Inuits and Eskimos survive because they live in a barren, godforsaken world that no one else would touch.

Well first off if you don't have any wonder/building ideas don't say anything.Second off if Native Ameriacans "uncilvlised" then what do you think of the Roamans crusifing people and have galiator fights?? how bought the contraion camps in Germany and in cuba is that cilvised???How a bought the prison ships killing of tons of Ameriacan prisoners is that cilvlised. Have you ever read the book COLLAPSE how seociteies collaspe witten by Jared Dimound good book, it gives lots of info abought the Norse in greenland and how they fallied you should read it.Oh yha well you tried not to be offencive well, do did a pritty good job at offending ME Anyway here is my resopnce to others Yellowhorse are those the wonders from Civ 3's Mesoamerica snario(sorry for my spelling)?!? If that what is what you are talking a bought that was my favorite one!!! along with feudal Japan I think that is good idea keep coming up with more!! And for the human thing??? We are both aloud to believe in what we want (I have no offence and respect your belief) thank you for pointing out that not all of the tribes are nomadic.

 

[Cannae]

Oh yah the Natives did have guns they had blowguns

 

[Spartan117]

Okay, let's say there is no germs. Even game, right? No!!!
You ever hear of a gun? It must be one of those European advances that the Native Americans didn't have.
The Europeans still would've conquered the Native Americans even without the germs.

Now, who's foot in whose mouth?

this is really quick...spaniards and such were hugely outnumbered and if it werent because of disease...the native americans could have developed gunpowder and have beaten the spaniards...all they needed was time and with the euro diseases, there was no time...im sorry but some couple hundred guys with muskets will be hugely outnumbered to, besides its a musket,can only fire like 2 shots or so in a couple of minutes...there will simply have been too many native americans..this is a completely different discussion though

sorry back on topic

even the units themselves are european and the wonders are generally us based or euro based...

there should be more wonders that are from native americans and africans...
what about egyptina sphinx or something or more of the pyramids in mexico and huge stone wonders that olmecs built

 

[chef pablo]

ok one last thing and then if alcosta wants to continue i suggest a new post or something 200 years before was the caribs a peacfull tribe that colombus thought were cannibals and the bugs did wipe them out along with the arrowack(sp)in the caribian islands.btw that is how the caribian ilses got thier name.
as for wonders if anyone can find it there is a site in i think in utah that they just dicovered it is an entire city on a cliff part of the annasazi group pretty amazing that it was so well hidden i think for early defense it would be a good wonder.again the serpant temple in chitchen itza is perfect,durring the spring and fall equinaxe a shadow of a serpant appears on the groand as the sun cast its rays over the temple. ya gotta admit to do this the calculations must have been huge espeacialy for a civ that didnt even have the wheel.this would definatly have to deal with the growing season and there fore should give farms some kind of bonus.
if we could give it a name the clovis people(the decendants of all tribes in the aemricas)spread pretty quick after crossing the berring straight,about 50 years according to archeoligicle evedince.

 

[chef pablo]

this is really quick...spaniards and such were hugely outnumbered and if it werent because of disease...the native americans could have developed gunpowder and have beaten the spaniards...all they needed was time and with the euro diseases, there was no time...im sorry but some couple hundred guys with muskets will be hugely outnumbered to, besides its a musket,can only fire like 2 shots or so in a couple of minutes...there will simply have been too many native americans..this is a completely different discussion though

thanx for the support as i said ,prime minister bohta white courtasy phone

 

[Danthor]

The easter island statue (or Mau i think)

It's MOAI (actually Moais since there is more than one). Pretty impressive statues considering they had very basic tools for construction. It is still unknown how they built them, although it is known that they wiped out every tree of the island in order to do this.

 

[Cannae]

The Clovis peole is a good alteritive to the Odiv Gorge.Egyptian Sphinx is a good one and for some buildings a stela(spelled someting like that) and the pyrimids colud be a buliding as well.Say has anyone read COLLAPSE how seociteies collaspe witten by Jared Dimound it is a good book and provides lots of info aboghut the polinesia.

 

[Cannae]

For the Suez cannal that is also a good idea and counts too(how ever I am looking prodomatly for N.amerians and Afriacan wonders or any non-eupepean wonder or building wolud be good)

 

[Spartan117]

maybe this should be in general discussions except this ties into the us biased wonders a bit

 

[heroes182]

Native American (South America, civilized) to me faces an even worse problem than Sub-Saharan Africa. There not even around today. They didn't have a written language, so we don't know what they did. As a matter of fact, we don't even know what their language was. They may of had wonders in ancient times, that weren't around by the time good ol' Columbus wiped 'em out. Since they didn't bother to write anything down, we don't know what there wonders were. And when Europe landed in South America, anything we today consider a wonder, they wouldn't have becasue they wouldn't be able to tell how long ago it was built. And nothing was a wonder in South America from 1492-1700 (in Europe's point of view) because the Europeans were so technologically advanced compared to them, everything they had was obsolete.

Are you serious...?
The only one of the large meso and south american civs without a written language were the Inca, who used a complicated system of knots on bits of string. They did, however, have a very strong spoken word tradition, and as a previous poster already stated, there's still millions of people all over meso and south america who *only* speak their ancestral languages even now.
As for their wonders not surviving til now, what do you think the enormous, monumental stone structures throughout the entire continent are, natural rock formations?
*sigh*

anyway, back on topic:

Tikal: could be a commerce related wonder and could easily be done by reskinning the Chichen Itza models. While we're on it, Chichen Itza giving a defense bonus makes no sense whatsoever. A beakers bonus would be more accurate.

Copan: likewise, could use the Chichen Itza model, but this one was a religious complex more than a trading center, so some religious/culture bonus would be fitting.

Nazca Lines: would definitely be an awesome wonder, if someone got them to look right that is... No idea what they'd do though... center the map? I dunno.

Machu Pichu: I know, it's a whole city, but if you've been there, you know it qualifies!

Temple of the Sun / Temple of the Moon: could be split into two sepparate wonders, even though they're both part of the Teotihuacan complex

El Dorado: hehehe, how cool would that be? 200 turns after you build it, it spawns two explorers... "I am Miguel!" "and I am Tulio!" "and together, we are Miguel and Tulio!"

Those'll do for now...

 

[chef pablo]

htp://whc.unesco.org/en/listfor ideas check out unesco world heritage site