Is there a way to make windmill economy viable.

[mangamancer]

I have noticed that with all boost(tech&civic), windmill have quite respectable yield.
I tried to play with Enviromentalism(which boost windmill yield)
but find myself end up with inferior economy when running Free Market or State Property.
I wonder if more competent players will be able to make this works.
Please recommend me what
-map type and size
-victory condition
-leader
-empire size
-others setting
that makes this viable.
Thanks.

BTW I'm a noble player.
I do think I can win on higher levels but letting A.I. cheat doesn't sit well with me,
so I don't move up.

 

[Seraiel]

I think Highlands and Ice Age are maps with lots of hills.

Regarding the economy: You shouldn't limit yourself to a single option, like "Cottage economy" or "Specialist economy" or "Windmill economy" . Simply build the best improvement for the current situation.

 

[Pangaea]

Another thing that helps is to play with a financial leader. Riverside windmills will then yield 3 commerce right away, without all the other bonuses from civics or techs.

 

[elitetroops]

I looked into this possibility when there was HoF Challenge series space game on Global Highlands map. Global Highlands has lots of land and lots of hills. Looking at the percentage of hills, I found that you could have 400-500 hills within your borders on a standard size map without breaking the domination limit. Some of them will have resources you'd rather work, but let's say around 400 windmills times 4-6 (depending on if you are financial or if it is riverside) times whatever multipliers your cities have. Add in other sources of commerce/beakers and I think in you can 1 turn most of the late game tech tree this way as well. Never got a chance to try this out though.

 

[mangamancer]

I think Highlands and Ice Age are maps with lots of hills.

Regarding the economy: You shouldn't limit yourself to a single option, like "Cottage economy" or "Specialist economy" or "Windmill economy" . Simply build the best improvement for the current situation.

Windmills don't conflict with cottages and farms though, so any type economy before windmills boosts kick in is totally fine. It's less like having only one type of economy and more like capitalize windmills boosts.

Maybe my approach is not right, but if I din't have good number of towns I ran other civics that wasn't Free Speech, and I rarely build watermills If I didn't run State Property.

 

[Seraiel]

@ mangamancer:

Take this as help:

1. Cottage your capital (every tile except hills, those can get Windmills)
2. Run Bureacracy to multiply the value of the Cottages in the capital.
3. Build Cottages in other cities when you are desperate of or plan to play a Space Race, otherwise Farms are usually the best improvement.
4. Once Workshops give 3 you can build those too.
5. Watermills (even with Electricity only so without SP) are the best commercial tiles, they're instantly on par with Towns, because they give 1 for each that a town has more, and 1 can be 1 or 1 via Wealth but also 1 to build a unit so Watermill = superior improvement from Electricity onwards
6. From the moment when Workshops give 3 or even 4 (with Caste) , they're usually the strongest improvement until Electricity (then Watermills have the better but Farms + Workshops still stay the best production tiles) .
7. Windmills are a great improvement for early mid-game (so right with Machinery before Workshops give 3 or 4 ) and from Electricity again onwards. They're ok improvements between Guilds and Electricity, because Workshops get strong then, they're definitely on par with Replaceable Parts again though, so Grassland Windmills = great and Plains-Hill-Windmills = ok.
8. The strongest improvement production-wise is the Biology-Farm + the whip when having the Kremlin. For a production-focussed economy, there's nothing better than Biology-Farms + Caste-Workshops. Watermills + Windmills are ok or even good in the right situations.

 

[mangamancer]

I have heard a lot about the power of Beauroc Capital, but I often end up building The Great Library in the capital(I'm not confident I can build it in time in another city) and have it become a gp farm.
Guest I'll Try playing without building wonders soon.

Thank you.

BTW my current favourite leader is Pericles, Guess I should switch to a Financial Leader.

 

[Seraiel]

@ mangamancer:

It doesn't matter if the capital has the GL, you can still cottage it and it's good if the capital gets the bonus from the scientists because it usually has an Academy. You can also create 1, 2 or 3 GSs in the capital even with it being specialized on Cottes and you can create 4, 5, 6 or whatever you like GPs over all of the other cities aswell. The concept of "just one GP Farm" is completely obsolete, generate GPs where you can and where they make sense. I often have 5-6 cities that generate different sorts of GPs so I can start a GA-chain of 4-5 consecutive GAs from mid-game 'til the finish. Not all of those cities are farmed, only one city is farmed and has the NE, but even if it's a cottage-city it can still hire 2 Scientists + an Engineer if it has good , or how about not working the Cottages when you're in a GA and have the bonus on and then work the Cottages again when the GA is over?

You also don't need to be FIN only because you use Cottages, play the strenghts of your leader but personally I'd say that it doesn't matter which leader you have. FIN is a good trait, but PHI + IND + SPI are even stronger. The cottaged Buro-capital is a concept that makes sense for 90% of the games though and it's a very strong tactic. Don't get too hung up in certain strategies or approaches, what you need is to find the fastest way towards victory. If you're PHI, then you'll probably have 1-2 more GP-Farms. When you're FIN then you'll build more riverside Cottages and less Farms. If you're IND then you'll aim for certain Wonders and will also use Failgold even without having the corresponding resource. The main game is behind that though and that is Cottages, Farms, Mines and later Windmills + Workshops, it's tech-trade, bribes, whipping, Caste + Pacifism, chopping and all that is not dependant on any leader. If you're a good player you play all leaders very slightly differently, but the main concept stays. You need nothing to make x work, try to make strong choices.

 

[elmurcis]

Reason why I rate pretty high games with Tokugawa as leader. No economic advantage, just extra military might.
I was so happy to win IMM Huge 18 civ APalace win few weeks ago with him, proved myself that I have learned something about this game from these great guys here

 

[Tatran]

Windmills are only an option when all happy + strategic mine resources are available.
Otherwise I will wait and hope one of the mines pop up a missing resource.