Is there a way to....

[rfxmills]

I was rereading this thread, I think that some good changes have come out of it. I'd still consider dropping range promotion one day, but I'd wait to see what effect these changes have first.

One question I didn't notice first time through...

We could copy the -50% ranged damage attribute from fighters.

How do aircraft work in VEM? Don't think I've got that far in a game before starting a new one. From vanilla I remember fighters and bombers not really being ranged, but rather fast melee units instead. Wouldn't dropping their combat strength by 50% make them take even more damage attacking spearmen?

 

[rfxmills]

U forgot about barbarian ships that can still fire 2 haxes away.

Unless thats intended. Personally don't care.

Should Probably depends if they're a light or heavy ship

 

[Dunkah]

I support Nerfing Naval ships against Cities!

Curently I can take 8 ships of any type and one land based unit of any type:
keep them all out of range of the city until everyone is in position
fly into the city harbor
leave a hex beside the city for the land unit to attack from
bomb the crap out of the city
move the unit in
city destroyed

Doesn't matter what the city has for defense. If they are suprubly defended then it may take a second turn in which I may lose a unit but unlikely.

After the battle is done if the AI has enough troops to take it back I will recoup in the city until it is untenable then will abandon the unit from the city. After 2 or three times the city is all but destroyed and the Ai has spent every unit it has trying to defend and reclaim it's city.

Once all AI units are dead Rinse-repeat to the other Civs...

Is it possible that we could make Naval units that are only capable of brining the Hit points of a city down to half it's original hit points, forcing civs to use melee units to finish it off? I've never heard of a situation where a naval bombardment has left a city in complete ruins...

By the middle of WWII the Japanese had figured out simply to dig some defenses and the bombardments couldn't really touch you. Look at the Atlantic wall, Bombardments and Air Bombardments mostly ineffective against the German bunkers.

God and Kings is only going to exacerbate this due to that fact you won't even need a land based unit at all.

How about a new shore battery improvement?
How about a shore battery building that allows a second or third shot from cities?
Coastal defenses were pretty well feared in RL.

 

[Txurce]

Is it possible that we could make Naval units that are only capable of brining the Hit points of a city down to half it's original hit points, forcing civs to use melee units to finish it off? I've never heard of a situation where a naval bombardment has left a city in complete ruins...

Keep in mind the city doesn't have to be in ruins - just brought to a point where it can no longer defend itself, and surrenders. This is how I interpret the present mechanic.

By the middle of WWII the Japanese had figured out simply to dig some defenses and the bombardments couldn't really touch you. Look at the Atlantic wall, Bombardments and Air Bombardments mostly ineffective against the German bunkers.

This example would apply to any sort of bombardment: naval, air, and ground. In effect you're saying ranged fire should cause only so much damage, no matter how intense. That's a reasonable view, but a huge change to Civ combat.

How about a new shore battery improvement?
How about a shore battery building that allows a second or third shot from cities?
Coastal defenses were pretty well feared in RL.

G&K will provide this in less than seven weeks!

 

[Thalassicus]

How do aircraft work in VEM?

Same as vanilla. The -50% ranged strength of fighters is in vanilla.

 

[Dunkah]

Keep in mind the city doesn't have to be in ruins - just brought to a point where it can no longer defend itself, and surrenders. This is how I interpret the present mechanic.

G&K will provide this in less than seven weeks!

Once it switches sides many of it's buildings are removed so you could say "in ruins" as well, but that was really only meant for color. The point is I can't think of an instance where the navy pulls into the harbor, bombards the city and the city surrenders without the presence of an army to back it up.

Shore Batteries in G&K?

 

[rfxmills]

Same as vanilla. The -50% ranged strength of fighters is in vanilla.

That's not linked to Blitz though? Isn't that what they do normally? They only use their full combat strength when intercepting.

 

[Jaybe]

The point is I can't think of an instance where the navy pulls into the harbor, bombards the city and the city surrenders without the presence of an army to back it up.

That's troops on or accompanying the combat ships (whether triremes, destroyers, etc.).
Just takes a sidestep in thinking.

 

[Lmaoboat]

To be fair, having guns isn't going to stop a bunch of giant rocks from crushing you.

 

[Lrd Dread]

To be fair, having guns isn't going to stop a bunch of giant rocks from crushing you.

If I have a big gun, I can keep you far enough away that your big rock won't even come near me.

 

[Lmaoboat]

If I have a big gun, I can keep you far enough away that your big rock won't even come near me.

I'm no military historian, but I'm pretty sure muskets weren't all that greater in range than trebuchets, if at all. And it doesn't matter if you have a plasma rifle, a big rock is going to squish you all the same.

 

[Thalassicus]

The -50% ranged strength of fighters is in vanilla.

That's not linked to Blitz though? Isn't that what they do normally? They only use their full combat strength when intercepting.

Right.

 

[atola]

WTH - How come all you guys think blitz is better than ranged? I die from AI getting ranged promation because they can do more pinopoint damage on once square.- and because they are often way to far away for me to kill quickly. I go for ranged on all sailing ships because then i can sit back and kill anthing on land and cities all i want. Admititly I only play Emperor, but still...

Keep track with your blitz versus ranged promation, how often you don't actually get to use your blitze but could have atacked if you had the extra range. I go for range first for everthing...

 

[Txurce]

Most people here play Emperor or lower, so we're on the same page. Blitz just feels great, and has the added bonus of quickly getting you to +1 range. I think it's pretty safe with crossbows, but agree with you regarding ships.

 

[atola]

I support Nerfing Naval ships against Cities!

Curently I can take 8 ships of any type and one land based unit of any type:
keep them all out of range of the city until everyone is in position
fly into the city harbor
leave a hex beside the city for the land unit to attack from
bomb the crap out of the city
move the unit in
city destroyed

I agree with the above.
did i read somewhere that with the Civ 5 expansion navel ships are going to shift to melle typ warfare? - might make this while thing a whole lot better.

 

[Seek]

I agree with the above.
did i read somewhere that with the Civ 5 expansion navel ships are going to shift to melle typ warfare? - might make this while thing a whole lot better.

Like land units, there will be two lines: ranged and melee. I agree, it should help the AI quite a bit.

 

[Thalassicus]

@atola
In the test case I set up in post #59, blitz performed better than range for ships besieging cities. The test was performed after the blitz nerf.