Is This a Cheat?

[Beard Rinker]

Use this thread to post techniques that you are not sure if they are cheats or legitimate strategies. Please put in your 2 bits worth on any technique so players will know what's not allowed and what is a good idea.

My Cheat/Good idea

When anticipating a technology that allows building a great wonder, I start building a palace in a high production city. Once the technology is discovered, I switch from the palace to the wonder and complete it quickly, sometimes in one turn.

Argument for: It seems legitimate to be able to plan for a high production task. Although prevented from rushing a wonder in many ways, the game does allow this.

Argument against: I'm quite sure the AI does not have the foresight for this (would it be fair game of chess against someone who didn't know how one of the pieces moved?). It seems as though the game designers intention with wonders was they must be built from scratch, the only short cut being great leaders.

 

[pvondrak]

from page 42 in the manual,

No penalty for changing projects: The penalty for changing production in mid-project is gone -- except for any shields lost as overrun.

I doubt the developers didn't realize that this would lead to working on projects you don't want prior to getting the tech for a wonder you want so you'd get the wonder faster. It's an obvious tactic that's probably been around since the first 4X game that didn't penalize you for production changes. As such, I don't see how it can be considered a bug. I think it's a little odd, but it's their decision... *shrug*

 

[Matrix]

Now we have two threads about this. (The other one.) Ah, well. People probably won't notice that other thread as such, so I won't merge them or anything.

But this is a point worth considering. I'm actually quite sure Firaxis didn't thought about this. Can a palace also be bought? Perhaps Firaxis should consider that the current built up production should be thrown out once starting a wonder. Just like what happens when you switch to a production which requires less shields then you already have.

 

[Headmaster]

Originally posted by Matrix
Can a palace also be bought?

no

 

[Lucky]

This was already addressed in the first patch!

The main pre-patch problem was that people started to build palaces in several cities so they could switch to a wonder once it was discovered.
After the patch you can only build a palace in one city at a time.
The real problem remains though, building ahead of a discovery.
But it is NOT a cheat, it is explicitly allowed. In previous Civ-version you would get a penalty for changing the production.
This was taken out and is now a vital part of the game (although really unrealistic ). It´s even mentioned in the manual, so unless Firaxis says otherwise, it´s not a cheat.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Lucky
This was already addressed in the first patch!

This remark was addressed to someone who claims to know the game (me).

Anyway, you can go on and on about how to expoit the AI. There will always be a way. So no cheat into that direction.

 

[FriendlyFire]

What about Retiring Immediately and looking at the WORLD MAP ??

What about 1/2 through the game to check your overall score ?
(Prob by then you'll have swaped maps with the A.I)

Reloading After STUPID mistakes ? I.E Moving your settlers in the wrong direction or Hitting the "A" for workers. Early on the lost of 2 turns can be substancal (Iam talking about the fist 100 turns)

Corrpted sav games. I.E it crashed on me once when I was saving and had to reload the game from an Autosav

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by FriendlyFire
What about Retiring Immediately and looking at the WORLD MAP ??

That is definitely cheating!! Imagine what advantage that gives if you do that after the first turn!

Originally posted by FriendlyFire
What about 1/2 through the game to check your overall score ?
(Prob by then you'll have swaped maps with the A.I)

Also no go. Never ever!

Originally posted by FriendlyFire
Reloading After STUPID mistakes ? I.E Moving your settlers in the wrong direction or Hitting the "A" for workers. Early on the lost of 2 turns can be substancal (Iam talking about the fist 100 turns)

Pressing the wrong button gives dispensation.

Originally posted by FriendlyFire
Corrpted sav games. I.E it crashed on me once when I was saving and had to reload the game from an Autosav

If it is corrupt: ofcourse. I mean, you do have the right to actually play the GOTM. Just make sure you do the same thing as you did before.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Going into Anarchy to Sav your Game. Punching Monitor and Sending death threats to Sid.

Dose that sum up my problem. For the first time Thanks to the latest patch my GOTM has crashed repeatedly. I went into Anachy a total of 10 times.

A total of around 100turns were spent in anarchy. (Ok Exaggeration prob around 60-80 turns in anarchy). With population going backwards. So is there anything that can be done about this? Seriously affected my score. I lost around 2mil in population for example.

it really ruined an enjoyable game for me.
What would happen if I didn't know about the Anarchy thingy would it be ok to start again from ??? Hmmm I guess a lot of pplz will have the same prob. We'll see if the number of submission drop. But something must be done about this

 

[Matrix]

Why exactly are you going into anarchy, FriendlyFire? Are you sure it isn't some change in the rules which you have overseen?

 

[Beard Rinker]

Someone had some good posts on this kind of crash. Basically, he isolated the city that caused the crash and made modifications to that city, avoiding the anarchy work-around.

I haven't had this problem yet so this fix is not first hand. The fix goes something like this:
- Display a list of cities with one of the worker automation commands (can't remember which) and print it or copy it out. This is the order the cities are processed in.
- When your turn is done, watch closely as it processes the cities. When the crash occurs, you should know approximately which city it crashed on.
- Modify the happiness in the problem cities. i.e. Turn a bunch of laborers into entertainers.

This fix requires replaying the turn a couple of times to determine the problem city and correct it. Under these circumstances, I don't believe this would be considered a cheat.

I'm not sure who posted this or if my instructions are completely correct. The original was posted somewhere on the Civilization Fanatics' Forum.

Just a thought, cranking up luxuries for a turn may also work.

 

[Matrix]

Thanks for that clear explanation, Beard Rinker. I don't read everything that's on this forum.

Originally posted by Beard Rinker
This fix requires replaying the turn a couple of times to determine the problem city and correct it. Under these circumstances, I don't believe this would be considered a cheat.

No it's not a cheat, naturally.

 

[Beard Rinker]

I have another cheat/slimy tactic.

In the recent GOTM, there was a small island that had horses. I captured the island, starting a war with the French, and placed some units on it to guard the island. It seemed the French were throwing everything they had at the island as they had no other wars and I had my hands full with the Japanese.

What I eventually did to protect the island was cover every square with a unit (including using workers) blocking the French from landing. After a few turns I decided this was not a fair tactic, re-deployed my units to protect the city and horses and let the chips fall where they may.

In my opinion, using units, especially non military units for the sole purpose of blocking a landing is not within the spirit of the game and should be considered a cheat.

 

[Matrix]

...Typically something Firaxis should improve: capture non-military units also when landing. But perhaps Firaxis has their reasons for not being able to land when all squares are occupied.
Argh, difficult matter... What do others think?

Edit: My own opinion: Just do it. It doesn't ruin the game. I'll only call something a cheat when it spoils to the edge.

 

[Aeson]

If the AI would ever use marines, and if there were more units capable of making direct assaults from ships, this really wouldn't be a problem. Invasions launched from sea were common before marines were ever thought of. Vikings did it all the time, Corsairs and Pirates of various sorts did as well. There need to be more options for this type of assault in the game. I don't think its a cheat to use though, otherwise building a city on a 1 tile island would be a cheat. They are invincible until marines come around.

 

[Beam]

More cheats (that is what is this thread is about isn't it).

Use espionage options at your favour. If you do not like the result reload.

This is encouraged by the exorbitant cost for Espionage and has been elaborated on in another thread.

 

[Aeson]

Expansionist Mischief -

Playing a game with the Zulus recently, I found a very effective use for Scouts. I was placing them on resources in the AI's territory before they could build roads there. The AI never demanded that I withdraw my Scouts, and never attacked them. I was able to keep 8 Civs without Iron or Horses through all of the Ancient Era, and most of the Middle Ages.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Beammeuppy
Use espionage options at your favour. If you do not like the result reload.

Quote from the rules of GOTM for Civ3
and reloading the game when things don't go the way you wanted are all considered cheating.

 

[Beard Rinker]

Originally posted by Aeson
Expansionist Mischief -

Playing a game with the Zulus recently, I found a very effective use for Scouts. I was placing them on resources in the AI's territory before they could build roads there. The AI never demanded that I withdraw my Scouts, and never attacked them. I was able to keep 8 Civs without Iron or Horses through all of the Ancient Era, and most of the Middle Ages.

Parking a scout or some other unit on a resource sounds ok to me. The AI certainly has mechanisms to remove your scouts if it wanted. Perhaps the fact that they didn't have these cruicial resources prevented the AI from becoming too aggresive.

 

[Matrix]

The AI doesn't realise he's being denied to use that resource by you.

I wouldn't do it, Aeson. It can give a mighty big advantage. For example, it could give me the victory in the GOTM II, if we weren't the Greeks, but some explorer nation.