Håkan Eriksson
Commander of the Swedes.
Any violence against children should be forbidden. No matter if it's the parents or somone else who do it. No matter if it happens one time or if it's done every day.
Is this a step too far?
- Thread starter Archer 007
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If you don't know, Grandraem, then your kids won't, either. Get it firmly in mind that physical discipline isn't an option, and they will too. Otherwise, they will test you, and set the family on a bad pattern.
Children explore potentials and define themselves by limits. Getting hit shouldnft be part of one's identity.
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I think some parents fail to structure life such that the kids generally want to do what the parents like. They lose initiative, and must constantly chase after their kids, scolding them. All the fun happens just before these kids hear "no". Pretty soon, "no" becomes commonplace, disregarded, a thrill if anything. So the parents raise it up a notch, and so on. Discipline falls through reason to something else.
I wouldn't advise parents against saying "no". However, I do suggest aiming for a childrearing style where saying "no" is unnecessary. Positive behaviour is always preferable to the mere absence of negative behaviour. Leading this needn't cost us much, if we keep ahead of things and put our superior minds to use. In my experience this approach saves my energy overall.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
Says you?
And what power have you to speak for parents who DO hurt their children?
What is good for you is not good for everyone, stones.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
Stop two-year old children being beaten to death?
Or do you find that an acceptable part of society?
Sheesh....
You're right, and I apologize for my earlier post.
I always detested the comment I heard one time from an ex-acquaintance who said he'd probably abuse his children because his dad abused him. I always saw that as shoddy and pathetic reasoning. As you pointed out:This happens. And even though I never felt as though I was abused or hurt by my parents, that's no excuse for continuing a bad pattern that easily leads to a worse pattern.
Thank you for pointing that out to me, Sean.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
To all those people who expound beating children, remember this:
Can an adult always be relied on to stop themselves from losing control when hitting a child? Hmmmm?
What about stress, and other factors? Hmmmm?
What if a parent 'snaps'? Hmmmm?
How does this fit into your draconian, Charles Dickens-like viewpoint?
Not so easy to quantify, is it?
As stones, points out, people are not sheep.
And they certainly don;t act like them when it comes to violence.
I was never hit as a child, my parents were against such barbarism.
I am grateful for my parents high-minded approach and am an opponent of any child abuse.
If I seen a father hitting his child, I would step and stop him.
If it was a mother, I would threaten to call the social works dept.
Anyone who says beating is needed, is merely a product of a bad, beatings-filled upbringing, IMHO.
Can an adult always be relied on to stop themselves from losing control when hitting a child? Hmmmm?
What about stress, and other factors? Hmmmm?
What if a parent 'snaps'? Hmmmm?
How does this fit into your draconian, Charles Dickens-like viewpoint?
Not so easy to quantify, is it?
As stones, points out, people are not sheep.
And they certainly don;t act like them when it comes to violence.
I was never hit as a child, my parents were against such barbarism.
I am grateful for my parents high-minded approach and am an opponent of any child abuse.
If I seen a father hitting his child, I would step and stop him.
If it was a mother, I would threaten to call the social works dept.
Anyone who says beating is needed, is merely a product of a bad, beatings-filled upbringing, IMHO.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
No, not says me. I'm not speaking for anyone besides myself. I didn't say it was good for me or would be good for anyone else. I said I was not harmed by it.
What I am saying is -
A) This is absolutely not a matter for any government and it's a sad thing that it even comes up
and
B) I don't think an occassional spanking effects a child in the least, aside from being perhaps a very mild deterrent.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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Hey, we're getting a bit off topic here. The question being discussed isn't whether people should hit their children, it's whether the government should outlaw spanking. This is more a question about the roll of government than the roll of a parent.
There are lots of behaviors that I dissaprove of and would rather not see people partake in, but I don't think the government should have a roll in that. Look what happened when the USSR outlawed non-state sponsored religion, was that a good thing? So you wont see me lobying for that either however much I dissaprove
There are lots of behaviors that I dissaprove of and would rather not see people partake in, but I don't think the government should have a roll in that. Look what happened when the USSR outlawed non-state sponsored religion, was that a good thing? So you wont see me lobying for that either however much I dissaprove
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
And a law will magically change this? Please.
The difference between a beating and a spanking is very easy to discern, if that's what you're getting at.
Obviously, the way you were raised is the only way possible if one hopes to produce a decent human being.
If anyone saw a father or mother beating a child, I'd hope they would step in and stop it. I would do the same thing.
Once again, you confuse beating and spanking.
phoenix_night
Deity
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Oh, that's a great quote.
They aren't equal to us so lets just hit them.
Why don't we just go and beat up some disabled people, I mean, they aren't physically equal to us are they?
Or do you mean they aren't as intelligent? Lets just pick on some mentally ill people is it?
And stop saying the government shouldn't have a say. They do. They are there to protect the people of the country they govern amongst other things, no matter how young they are.
phoenix_night
Deity
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Are you suggesting the laws will simply be ignored? A new law would certainly reduce incidents of spanking and would certainly not encourage it.
It would reduce it in both the short and long term.
Now I actually think about it, the above quote sounds astonishingly stupid, are you suggesting we live in some sort of anarchic state where the government is just some sort of comedy side show and the laws are nothing more than recommendations?
Originally posted by Grandraem
You're right, and I apologize for my earlier post.
...
Thank you for pointing that out to me, Sean.
I didn't mean to scold you! I was connecting what Gothmog wrote: "...kids are little emotional antennas" to the question of how discipline problems begin. Children have an uncanny perception, and adaptability, for their parent's role potentials. They'll fit anything. We control how they behave towards us by first defining in our own minds how we'll behave towards them.
You're thinking ahead of the game. I'm sure you'll win, until they reach teen-age
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Is this government turf? Well, is it up to society, and if so, what agencies does society use to reach decisions and direct individuals? Government and law, of course! If society may speak on this, we'll hear its voice through government. If society may act, we'll see it in law.
Gothmog
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are you trying to equate law and justice? or saying that the law is metted out equally and deservedly? and if you haven't noticed the similarity between the government and a comedy side show then there is really no use talking to you.In america there are already laws agains child abuse (I assume in Briton too), one against spanking would be just asking for trouble IMO.
Edit: the above post is directed at phoenix_night
Archer 007
Rebirth
Originally posted by SirJethro
If it don't leave a bruise, it don't deserve to be news......
Really people...our governments are becoming a little heavy handed in dictating how our children are raised. Some real life examples:
- In the last few weeks (forget the state) a man was arrested for taking his 3 MONTH OLD son to Hooters. I mean, come on....
- About a year ago a woman somewhere in the south was arrested because her child got badly sunburnt at a county fair...
I'm sure we could all quote crazy examples of the law stepping in to "save the day" from things that are simply poor parenting choices. We have a responsibility to raise our kids right, but the government does not have the moral authority to tell us how to do it.
Really, it would be fun to take the children of all lawmakers who are setting these laws and compare how they turned out to the "average" kid....
Agreed.
Archer 007
Rebirth
Absolutly correct. I base this on my little brother and sister, with whom i dont live. When they are around my mom, they act all crazy and wild. Then when they are arround grandmother, they behave. Why you ask? Grandmother spanks them when they misbehave.
How can anyone with any common sense see it as child abuse to lightly hit a child to restait them. Its not like where talking about parents punching children in the jaw. Just a lite tap on the rear. I mean its not leaving a mark, and its not causeing any damage. Itss only teaching the child to respect authoity. I have a friend who's parents would never spank him. Guess what? He has been in legal troubles for actully attacking his parents
Gothmog
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I expect my kids to emulate me and I don't want to teach them that violence solves anything. For me it is less than a last resort. IMO using violence is teaching a kid that authority should be respected only if it threatens you with violence. That seems awful close to fear to me. I want to teach my kids that authority should be respected to the extent that it is not abused.
Archer 007
Rebirth
Archer 007
Rebirth
Now tell me how you would explain that to a three-year-old.
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