Is this a step too far?
- Thread starter Archer 007
- Start date
Spanking teaches children that the way to deal with problems is to use violence, so no, it is not going to far. Any parent that needs to resort to violence to discipline a child is not in control of their actions and is not raising their child well at all.
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Some, not all.
The law is designed to prevent child abuse, which is what does happen with a small minority.
It appears to me to be a law that punishes the majority to control the minority. And it will be the well-meaning mother who never really lays a hand on her child, that is hauled into court for giving a gentle slap on her toddler that screamed its way through Tesco's. The person who beats there child nightly with a belt will probably continue to do it anyway.
Greadius
:yeah:
The practice is about as archiac as hitting your wife to keep her in line, except women had a liberation movement. Children have not been so lucky.
I just fear the ability of this law to be enforced fairly without government agencies meddling too far into parenting regulations.
I just fear the ability of this law to be enforced fairly without government agencies meddling too far into parenting regulations.
Bose
Antipodean
My mind is not entirely made up, but Mummyman and Gredius... your posts were short and sweet, but made a LOT of sense to me...
Mrogreturns
The Ghost Who Posts
Well for older children this may well be true. For younger children all it teaches them is to not to do it again- if there is anybody watching.
Archer 007
Rebirth
Most children dont listen to reason or logic. The only way to keep them from misbehaving. This law doesnt sound like an anti-child abuse law (which are already on the books). Its a punishment on the right of a parent to control their children. Its a catch-22. Parents arent going to be allowed to displiance kids, yet they are being helded responable for their actions.
allhailIndia
Deity
I say spank till they get it. It is better than emotional blackmail and cutting off TV. 
:
Of course, I never did get hit much, but my uncle got thrashed by my grandmom with everything from a cricket bat to a broom. Then again he was the kid who pulled down his teacher's dhoti( a cloth worn like a sarong), in front of the class.
:Of course, I never did get hit much, but my uncle got thrashed by my grandmom with everything from a cricket bat to a broom. Then again he was the kid who pulled down his teacher's dhoti( a cloth worn like a sarong), in front of the class.
The developments I'm seeing in my 2-year-old's peers, is that the kids who's parents will use spanking, will deserve it; the parents who can't hit their kids seem to magically end up with basically reasonable children.
There is evil magic in the pattern of physical discipline. We don't all need to understand it, to ban it.
There is evil magic in the pattern of physical discipline. We don't all need to understand it, to ban it.
Pikachu
Emperor
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Where did you get that idea? Do you know "most children" ? In my experience, children do listen to logic. At least it is easy to teach them to listen to logic.
If children understand the reasons why they should behave well and understands that there are good reasons, then they will behave well. They don't need spanking to understand that.
Of course if you are unable to communicate with your own children, spanking could make them behave well in fear of the spanking, but that could have terrible side effects.
It would be good if a law against spanking children could reduce that child abuse, but I don't think a law would have much effect.
G
Gainy
Guest
im not so sure about "Spanking", but im all for hitting children 
(only for the ages of about 6 - 10 years old though)
(only for the ages of about 6 - 10 years old though)phoenix_night
Deity
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@Greadius,
Good post.
Good post.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
It is a foolish step that will do little but persecute the righteous. Those who really get into it will do it regardless. Thrashings are a good and proper part of growing up.
I'd be lying if I said I had never smacked my children. I have to say that it is a natural reaction to intense fear (when one of them, in a rage, ran across the road without looking), frustration or anger.
I can say that I have always (and I hasten to add it has been a very rare occurence) felt absolutely awful afterwards and have never observed it to be very effective with ONE exception - none of my kids have ever run across the road without looking since that day.
Mind you, it's very smug to assume that all kids will behave if treated decently - some are very bright, some are evil little ba5tards, some are just very self-centred. I doubt theere is any approach that is guaranteed to work on all children.
I can say that I have always (and I hasten to add it has been a very rare occurence) felt absolutely awful afterwards and have never observed it to be very effective with ONE exception - none of my kids have ever run across the road without looking since that day.
Mind you, it's very smug to assume that all kids will behave if treated decently - some are very bright, some are evil little ba5tards, some are just very self-centred. I doubt theere is any approach that is guaranteed to work on all children.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
People who connect spanking and physical abuse really have no clue.
I'm not saying I endorse spanking, but come on people, a quick spank is nothing to a kid. It's ineffective as a means of discipline because it usually doesn't hurt, not because it teaches a kid violence or some other crap. In my opinion, it can't hold a candle to verbal abuse.
Unlike some people, I'm only willling to draw on my own personal experiences in order to judge something. And to me, spanking is nothing to worry about, let alone ban. As a little kid, I was never spanked in the traditional sense, that is, held over a knee and swatted. We're kidding ourselves to suggest that abusive parents need to spank children to be abusive, or that it has anything to do with it at all. True abuse is far more insidious and much harder to pigeonhole. Degrading your child. Humiliating your child. Mocking them like they are so below your level that they should be ashamed. Treating them like you don't want them. Not showing them love. That's what causes the harm, not a quick swat on the butt for screaming in the super-market. (Which I think is a very bad solution). The problems go far, far beyond the form of punishment the parent might choose. A ban on spanking will fix nothing, except maybe spare a few people from an awkward moment when a mother spanks a kid in public.
Sadly, you need punishment that they will remember and want to avoid. There's no way around that. The thing with reasonable spanking is that it's not enough of a deterrent. I can remember not giving a crap if my mom spanked me or not. I sure as heck preferred it to spending the day in my room or picking green beans until my back ached.
In my opinion, spanking is overrated in every sense. Some well-meaning but stupid kooks in the government just really have no idea how kids tick. This isn't a matter for the government, it's a matter for the family.
I'm not saying I endorse spanking, but come on people, a quick spank is nothing to a kid. It's ineffective as a means of discipline because it usually doesn't hurt, not because it teaches a kid violence or some other crap. In my opinion, it can't hold a candle to verbal abuse.
Unlike some people, I'm only willling to draw on my own personal experiences in order to judge something. And to me, spanking is nothing to worry about, let alone ban. As a little kid, I was never spanked in the traditional sense, that is, held over a knee and swatted. We're kidding ourselves to suggest that abusive parents need to spank children to be abusive, or that it has anything to do with it at all. True abuse is far more insidious and much harder to pigeonhole. Degrading your child. Humiliating your child. Mocking them like they are so below your level that they should be ashamed. Treating them like you don't want them. Not showing them love. That's what causes the harm, not a quick swat on the butt for screaming in the super-market. (Which I think is a very bad solution). The problems go far, far beyond the form of punishment the parent might choose. A ban on spanking will fix nothing, except maybe spare a few people from an awkward moment when a mother spanks a kid in public.
Sadly, you need punishment that they will remember and want to avoid. There's no way around that. The thing with reasonable spanking is that it's not enough of a deterrent. I can remember not giving a crap if my mom spanked me or not. I sure as heck preferred it to spending the day in my room or picking green beans until my back ached.
In my opinion, spanking is overrated in every sense. Some well-meaning but stupid kooks in the government just really have no idea how kids tick. This isn't a matter for the government, it's a matter for the family.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
That's an interesting point. My guess is that the children saw the effect it had on you; the change in your demeanor, your obvious fear and distress, and that was far more memorable than any quick swat.
SirJethro
Paterfamilias
If it don't leave a bruise, it don't deserve to be news...... 
Really people...our governments are becoming a little heavy handed in dictating how our children are raised. Some real life examples:
- In the last few weeks (forget the state) a man was arrested for taking his 3 MONTH OLD son to Hooters. I mean, come on....
- About a year ago a woman somewhere in the south was arrested because her child got badly sunburnt at a county fair...
I'm sure we could all quote crazy examples of the law stepping in to "save the day" from things that are simply poor parenting choices. We have a responsibility to raise our kids right, but the government does not have the moral authority to tell us how to do it.
Really, it would be fun to take the children of all lawmakers who are setting these laws and compare how they turned out to the "average" kid....
Really people...our governments are becoming a little heavy handed in dictating how our children are raised. Some real life examples:
- In the last few weeks (forget the state) a man was arrested for taking his 3 MONTH OLD son to Hooters. I mean, come on....
- About a year ago a woman somewhere in the south was arrested because her child got badly sunburnt at a county fair...
I'm sure we could all quote crazy examples of the law stepping in to "save the day" from things that are simply poor parenting choices. We have a responsibility to raise our kids right, but the government does not have the moral authority to tell us how to do it.
Really, it would be fun to take the children of all lawmakers who are setting these laws and compare how they turned out to the "average" kid....
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
It is clearly NOT the same thing. A wife is an equal, children are not. They can't be expected to be. Spanking a child to discipline them is nothing like hitting your wife to "keep her in line", which is about the ultimate in degradation.
Let me ask you this...would you send your wife to her room? Forcibly deny her the things she likes to do? Would those things not be abuse to her? Of course they would. Abuse to children? Not hardly. The difference is that you must have authority over your children, but you should not have such authority over other adults, especially your partner.
You can't treat young children as equals, because they don't want to see you as an equal. Or at least they shouldn't, because if that's the way they learn, then the parent will be the one being abused by the childs' manipulation. And don't think that doesn't happen.
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
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Sean Lindstrom wrote:
"The developments I'm seeing in my 2-year-old's peers, is that the kids who's parents will use spanking, will deserve it; the parents who can't hit their kids seem to magically end up with basically reasonable children."
I see the same pattern but would add emotional abuse to the spanking. I agree with thestonesfan that verbal abuse is just as bad or worse when compared to mild physical abuse. IMO, kids are little emotional antennas. They learn most from what we do and our emotional state, not as much from what we say. That's why emotional abuse is the worst kind, those are the signals the kid is picking up and learning from. If a parent uses physical punishment it doesn't necessarily mean that they are abusing their kid.
That said, I don't think a law against spanking is a good idea. "government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master"
"The developments I'm seeing in my 2-year-old's peers, is that the kids who's parents will use spanking, will deserve it; the parents who can't hit their kids seem to magically end up with basically reasonable children."
I see the same pattern but would add emotional abuse to the spanking. I agree with thestonesfan that verbal abuse is just as bad or worse when compared to mild physical abuse. IMO, kids are little emotional antennas. They learn most from what we do and our emotional state, not as much from what we say. That's why emotional abuse is the worst kind, those are the signals the kid is picking up and learning from. If a parent uses physical punishment it doesn't necessarily mean that they are abusing their kid.
That said, I don't think a law against spanking is a good idea. "government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master"
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
On both points I agree totally with the pink hog!
(even though agreeing with him makes me break out in hives)
Gread's reasoning is sound, though, and I welcome it!
Hitting a junior is child abuse, plain and simple.
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