Isabella is really really annoying

[calyth]

<RANT>
It seems that the spiritual trait makes Isabella very annoying to deal with.
She's likely to get Buddism as her state religion, and she never converts, even if you "infect" all her cities with a different religion. And she enjoys holy crusades and asking for ridiculous tributes.
</RANT>
Anyone got some interesting solutions?

 

[puglover]

Rush her and kill her off.

 

[calyth]

Well, I was just building up defense for my last game, and she took over a babarian city, then she declares war. I have 3 Chariots and a Warrior in a starting city right next to the Barbarian city she took, and it was building archers. She just ran right over that with horse archers, and razed it, after killing the 2 archers that I rushed.
I was in full military mode, and build a bunch of horse archers (there was jungle in between) and spearman to counter her horse archers. Even for battles that I was having higher odds, she was killing off my troops. She got these magical 3 unit upgrades for her archers (and other units), which are city defenses. There's no way she could've pulled a West Point, and I doubt there's a Hero's Epic. And this is fricking warlord - i.e. odds should be in my favour. I couldn't capture the babarian city (there was iron there). I couldn't prevent her from going ape on me. I had to bring in another civ to fight her (not that it made a difference), and it made me so frustrated. I mean I could station spearman and her horse archers would take them out.
I swear there's something wrong with that particular AI. There's no pleasing her unless you share her religion, and she'll just target the only human in the game. It is super-rare that I've seen her declare war on another nation that didn't share her religion (one out of at least 5). I mean afterall, my last game was standard size map, there was like 3 other civs with my religion on the same continent.

 

[Belboz]

On the other hand, she's also one of the most active at sending missionaries across your border, if you can somehow get her to agree to open borders. (Switching to Free Religion helps.) Extra Buddhist temples, monasteries, and stupas are great for those trying to get a cultural victory.

 

[wilwil]

she just annoyed to me at all time in all games ...

 

[Rirse]

Agreed, she is very nuts in most games I played. She always tend to declare war on me for not giving her ONE tech for free. Wouldn't be so bad if she didn't get one of the early reglions all the time.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Yeah, she is really irksome. I wish she would choke. Or at least judge someone based on character, not religion.

 

[calyth]

On the other hand, she's also one of the most active at sending missionaries across your border, if you can somehow get her to agree to open borders. (Switching to Free Religion helps.)

Um.. at least tactically, I got reamed already by her in the Classical era. Fighting a war with her usually is a colossial waste of resources (unless you intend to have a conquest vic). Usually if you do try to get a religion to help with diplomacy with the other civs, you won't get the open borders needed to get her missionaries to spread Buddism (so that you could adopt it and avoid the mess). As soon as you get a religion, or even just as soon as you adopt one, it's almost guaranteed that nothing you could do would even appease her from starting a holy war. At least I manage to convert Togukawa simply being near his cities, and relations warmed pretty quickly.
Adopting her religion is IMO a bad idea simply because if you want more happiness in your cities, you'll have to spread her religion, which a) she gets to spy on them, b) she gets money from them if she used the great person to build a shrine. Even if you get on her good side, you'll eventually have to get resources, and she wants those resources, and she'll even declare war when she's pleased with you.
I'm going to avoid playing against Isabella like the plague for now.

 

[panzooka]

i was sharing a continent at start with her, and she goes "let there be peace between us, untill there is no land to expand"
then when every single land on this continent got covered, she declared war

 

[Eigenvector]

Isabella's always been easy for me to deal with. I think its the type of campaign you wage. I have never done any business with her culturally, I never trade, convert, or give her open borders. But for some reason I can always mass an army, declare war, take a city of hers, declare peace. Repeat until she's down to about 2 cities and can't do a dang thing to you. After that I usually leave her alone and let her bluster and threaten me.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Truth be told, I think that Isabella was among the worst choices of Spanish leaders. I would have much rather liked to see instead say Charles V or even Franco.

 

[oriel94]

Isabella is a fanatical, war mongering, religious zealot. She's GREAT!

 

[Asterothe]

I like her personally
She was jewish at my last game. I took the holy city from her
and we got along well afterwards.

 

[playshogi]

Don't wait for the demand--- gift her a resource.
After a short time---- agree to open borders.
Then convert to her religion.
You will then have a strong ally.

 

[mutax2003]

I typically rush the first couple of neighboring civs at the beginning on monarch (steal a worker or two, then chop rush 3 or 4 cities). So if she starts next to me, she will be toast in short order. However, my usual priorities are to rush Aztec (Jag Warrior), Rome (Praetorian), Greek (Hoplite), and Mongols (Keshiks), since those are dangerious early UU.

Mutax2003

 

[calyth]

Don't wait for the demand--- gift her a resource.
After a short time---- agree to open borders.
Then convert to her religion.
You will then have a strong ally.

What you said was the thing to do to delay a war, not to win an ally.
Usually if you already declared a state religion, it's almost impossible to get her to open borders for her missionary to come by. Then there's the as mentioned downside of having her know all the things going on your cities (I'm going to assume that she's got her own holy city). Even by appeasing her, you manage to get her to be Pleased, as soon as the continent is covered, she will declare war no matter what.
If you've spread your own religion around, you really don't want to change your religion then. You'll end up lowering your friendliness with the others, and Spain isn't particularly strong and I don't think she's really willing to help you if you're under attack.

 

[Wolfwood]

I'm in love with her and give her anything to make her happy... Gifts after gifts, while I'm killing off other civs...

 

[Bast]

As Catherine of the Christian Russians in my last game, I started off very icy with the Buddhist Isabella. This time, however, Spain didn't found Buddhism, Mali did. Possibly due to this, Isabella converted to Christianity. We now enjoy better relations.

 

[Thormodr]

I guess the biggest problem is when people don't think outside the box. I used to think that giving a tech to an AI was a total no-no. Even converting to another Civ's religion to keep the peace I thought was a non-option. Now I see that in certain situations short term pain means long term gain. As Einstein said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
I guess that is one of the reasons I love Civ 4. The interaction with the AI seems 1000% better. People are compaining about Isabella and not wanting to play with her because she disrupts their certain style of playing. I think that's fantastic. Every AI leader seems to have their little quirks and style of play. Makes the game infinitely more fun I think. Especially when I take advantage of them. Hee hee. In summation, know thy enemy.

 

[Dikaioma]

Agreed, she is very nuts in most games I played.

Yeah, I just finished ranting about her in another post. She's crazy, along with Napoleon, Alexander, Ceasar, Tokugawa. Actually, Tokugawa isn't that crazy, he is just super xenophobic.

Truth be told, I think that Isabella was among the worst choices of Spanish leaders. I would have much rather liked to see instead say Charles V or even Franco.

Wasn't Philip a good king?

I guess that is one of the reasons I love Civ 4. The interaction with the AI seems 1000% better. People are compaining about Isabella and not wanting to play with her because she disrupts their certain style of playing.

I agree. But I mean, there are games where I may found a religion, and it isn't beneficial for me to convert to her religion. She obviously isn't going to convert, that crazy zealot, so I just piss her off by not giving her ANYTHING she asks. When the time comes, I get rid of her. But the game I am playing now (just started monarch recently) she founded buddhism and it spread to my lands. I hadn't founded a religion, and my cities were starting to get pissed so I converted - she loves me now. I have noticed in every game I have played that if you do not share her same religion, she will hate you. Let the inquisitions begin.