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[GS] It's Been a Few Weeks, GS Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Wingednosering, Mar 6, 2019.

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How would you rate the Gathering Storm expansion?

  1. I don't have it

    14 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. 1 (Terrible)

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  3. 2 (Poor)

    13 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. 3 (Alright)

    44 vote(s)
    19.8%
  5. 4 (Good)

    126 vote(s)
    56.8%
  6. 5 (Incredible)

    23 vote(s)
    10.4%
  1. Bosque

    Bosque Warlord

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    I am trying to get the Achievement for a Diplomatic Victory, and as others have noted, it is a real grind. I was playing peacefully after one early game war. But as a Wonder-mongerer I was about to inadvertently win a Cultural Victory. I gave away or sold any Great Works that I had, but was still closing in on a CV. In order to win a Diplomatic Victory, I have been forced to wipe out three other civilizations so that I no longer received tourists from them. That's some real Diplomacy for you.

    Also, I intentionally ramped up building coal power plants in order to get the "Seahenge" Achievement. I was successful, but now coastal tiles around the world have been submerged, even though I have been building flood barriers and Carbon Recapture projects every where I can.
     
  2. Rambo919

    Rambo919 Warlord

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    The AI is still odd, one playthrough I was spammed with spies and the other there was barely a spy. On one playthrough the AI COMPLETELY ignored goody huts and on others they hunted them down.... all these playthroughs are with the exact same civs. Had one backstab emergency against the lovable Eleanor..... I was the only one not getting my units slaughtered in between walled cities.

    And yes ice melting is ridiculous and mostly happens because the AI spams units like mad. Never actually played that far, if you get flood barriers built do the flooded tiles drain? Is there a way late game to recover lost tiles? Why did they not just have separate flood barriers for each level or few levels of flooding?
     
  3. Bosque

    Bosque Warlord

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    Once the flood barriers are built, you can use a builder to repair flooded tiles. But there is no way to bring back submerged tiles. When they're gone, they're gone for good.
     
  4. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Which is, to say the least, peculiar given that the Dutch have been recovering 'flooded' areas since the Medieval Era and several countries today (China, Dubai) are building entirely new islands out of shallow waters. As usual in Civ games, we are not given the same terrain-modification options that the Real World has, even though the game claims to be historical and not fantasy. . .
     
  5. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
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    517
    I voted Poor. Judging just what GS added to the game, not Civ6 as a whole, that still is a great game and literally the only game I've been playing (after Civ5) for few years.

    Diplomatic favour - I really don't think we needed one more currency, it's all starting to be too complicated - especially considering that you can trade it just like gold or resources, this makes no sense to me (what exactly is it supposed to represent?).
    Diplomatic victory - boring. I went for it in my first game as Canada and managed to get it without problems, except for one huge problem - I had to try really really really hard not to win cultural victory earlier.
    World congress - absolute disappointment for me. Starts very early, the propositions are random, too specific and almost completely useless. I had absolutely no motivation to vote in 95 % of them (except for the diplomatic victory ones), but I still had to. It takes too much time to read it, understand it, pick a vote and then decipher how and especially why it ended like it did.
    Natural disasters - quite good, I don't have problems with this, I would say it's a fun addition. But - why no earthquakes, the most common natural disaster? How many volcanos have been making any damage in the last 1000 years?
    Rock bands - haven't tried them much yet, haven't played a cultural game. I tried them a few time to see the animations etc and I lose all of them on the first concert.
    Canals - great.
    Dams - average.
    Power - feels more like just another thing to keep in mind and micromanage.
    Global warming - doesn't make much sense, feels like an uninteresting feature to me.
    Future techs and civics - it's nice to have something to do longer in the game, but this doesn't really add anything to the game.

    So, what I really hate is the diplomatic victory, diplomatic favour and especially world congress. What I love are canals and I kinda like natural disasters.
     
    kaspergm likes this.
  6. Bee7

    Bee7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Diplomatic victory - Seems a bit random compared to the rest of the game. I have twice achieved it more or less by accident.
    World congress - Promising, but needs work. The proposals are random and often a waste of time and sometimes I don't get the opportunity to vote, which appears to be a bug.
    Diplo favour - Interesting, but I lots of potential missed. If coupled more strongly to agendas, for instance environment, it might work better.
    Natural disasters - love em.
    Rock bands - very fine, adds some fun to the game.
    Canals - would be great if you could build them over greater distances. My vote would be to allow engineers to make them, like railroads, using a variation of the same mechanic. Possibly the resource required could be stone from quarries?
    Dams - interesting, sometimes useful, but opportunities to build them are often limited. My vote would be to allow multiple dams on the same river, but only say six hexes apart.
    Power - good idea, but often irrelevant by late game.
    Global warming - neat idea too, but there is little reason to build clean power, since most of the warming comes from competing civs. If the rewards were higher, perhaps allowing earning of diplo favour and more resources for building coastal defences, the mechanic might work.
    Future tech - still barking.

    My worst problem with the game remains loyalty. Conquered cities convert too fast for governors to have any effect, and governors need to be a little bit more powerful when placed in a conquered city. When cities flip to independent, it is silly having them instantly build walls the way they do, especially when the walls are at the same level as the conquering civ. This opens up a neat exploit and it really ought to be fixed.

    Something has also gone wrong with unit pathfinding, which needs attention.

    Other than that, I love it.
     
  7. Arilian

    Arilian King

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
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    Location:
    Hungary
    I like the loyalty system a lot.
    I like rock bands but they are too powerful and too random. Less power and more consistency would be nice.
    Dams and Flood barriers are too expensive, I would like them otherwise, but never have the time to build a FB. Sometime it takes 100 turn to build of, if you have many titles to defend. It is better to wait for the tech to build see improvement...
    Power - It is ok.
    Global warming - Same as Bee7
    Canals - was never useful in 10 games so far, but I like to have the possibility :)
     
  8. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
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    517
    Yea, canals feel like something not really necessary, but very cool at the same time.

    I would say there are two types of usage:
    • Allow a city on a lake to produce ships in its harbor and then move the ships to oceans to actually use them. This is very nice and sometimes require some good thinking to make it work. But in reality - naval combat is not so important and you usually have other citites with harbors directly on open sea.
    • Make a passage through some land to greatly shorten naval paths, just like the real Panama or Suez Canals. I did this in a very cool way in my first GS game - had to make a city in the show area (as Canada, it didn't really hurt so much and I used it later for the Amundsen wonder) and put some canals. It was very nice and allowed me to move ships from one side of my continent to the other without the need to go all the way around. But funny is - I never actually used it :D
     
  9. Jkchart

    Jkchart King

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    My thoughts:
    -I know this is controversial, but The AI IS better. People keep saying it's not but I disagree. The tactical AI is the issue that most people have (I believe) because the AI can't do the same level of warfare a human can - we will just always be better. And the AI does make some questionable choices periodically, but it is more consistent (Artificial Intelligence just won't be perfect). But the grievance system has made the AI far more rational when it comes to diplomacy. The AI that I've experienced has better district placement, and overall better decision-making. One of my first games to get used to the mechanics I went back down to prince and actually almost lost a very close game. I was impressed with that.

    -The diplo-spam after I get ONE diplomatic favor and my first THREE iron sucks. The trade spam makes me want to tear my hair out.

    -I really like natural disasters as a whole - it adds another level of planning, decisionmaking, and consequence as someone who likes to play peacefully. Some games you get luckier with less disasters, others my river keeps destroying my farms before I get my dam up (but hey, more food). Side note: I still haven't been hit, or even seen, a hurricane. And I like building on the coast, dangit! Also, add earthquakes along continent lines and make Inca immune to those.

    -Climate change needs a LOT of rebalance. It is absolutely ridiculous that building an infantry unit contributes so much CO2 to the planet. Often times, it happens too fast to get flood barriers up in a reasonable time. I have yet to have most of a city sink into the sea myself a la Indonesia in my Phoenicia game (that was both hilarious and terrifying), though I did lose about half of a large island once (but that turned an inland city into a city directly on the ocean, so it ended up being okay with me?). Also, it doesn't feel consequential enough. Sure, I've lost a few valuable tiles and the ice caps melted by 85% but that's...it. After that, you don't care anymore. You can deal with the slightly increased disaster frequencies relatively easily by that stage of the game. Where is my desertification? Snow and tundra thawing? Smog choking up major industrial cities and reducing housing without carbon recapture? Needs more risk.

    Map generation: A+. The maps are so much better and I love just exploring my surroundings and planning my expansion and constructions. By far my favorite thing about the xpack.

    -Railroads: feels like they contribute a little bit too much to CO2, but I won't complain too much about that. The increased unit movement is great - helped me respond well to some late game aggression, and it makes land/mixed land-sea trade routes worth a bit more. I wish they had more of an impact on industrial/agricultural uses since the railroad was revolutionary for those. Still, it was just nice to have them back - their absence was sorely missed.

    -I think Tier 3 buildings could use a tad more of a buff, but otherwise they are better than they were pre-GS.

    -The power system: I think they did a good job here with its implementation. It forces me to actually think about whether it is worth building a tier-3 building for a particular city yet because you can't just spam them - no power, slashed benefits. Also if you're relying on coal, you have to be careful when and where you build these too. It's not perfect, but a welcome change.

    -Dams: Yes, I really think these were worth it. Other than being necessary due to the flood changes, hydroelectric power is great to have, and extra housing in key cities at stages where it's harder to get is nice for growth. Plus, it makes my agriculture towns look more complete and pretty :p

    -Canals: They're fun - not a necessary addition at all, but I do like creating a canal network when I have large lakes that allow bigger industrial inland cities to become ports and supply my navy with ships. In my Sweden game, Helsingborg was my major seaport after I cut canals to the ocean through one of its tiles and another city's two tiles, and that was kind of cool IMO. The extra gold from trade is nice.

    -Tunnels: are nice to have, and have actually opened up some late game city settling opportunities for me in valleys walled off by mountains that no one else has been able to claim yet. The teleportation aspects across the range are a bit op/ridiculous (ESPECIALLY in the case of the Qhapaq Nan being so early), but they are useful and fun. I approve. BUT the AI builds them on EVERY mountain they can. It's ridiculous. They need to be made less tunnel-happy.

    -Ski resorts: YAY a use for high appeal mountains other than HOPING you can get four of them into a national park! This was a great addition.

    -Flood barrier costs are too expensive when they are actually needed. If you get computers many turns before, they aren't an issue. But the ramping production costs make it impossible to save tiles sometimes as the sea level rises.

    -Rockbands: early on and they are OP but they can also be your saving grace if you're in a close game (Space rock ftw!). I approve of this, especially because I already loved culture victory. Culture victory is a bit more challenging if you're not running away with it, and this makes it a bit more active of an experience. The downside is the heavy RNG reliance and no real defense beyond warring and murdering the bands.

    -The new leaders/civs: All the ones I've played are the other reasons why I would absolutely recommend the expansion. So far, my favorite were Inca and Eleanor. Inca is a MONSTER when you settle in the mountains and make good use of terrace farms. You get massive and productive cities and can go for any victory you want really. Also, Qhapaq Nan are fun. Eleanor takes a bit of set up, but watching my friends just decide to join my civ without a fight is just rad. She was so much fun to try. Sweden was also cool (Nobel Prize for Physics is OP on so many levels), great for a culture game. Phoenicia is just fun - not a set of bonuses that makes you think they are OP, but I was able to claim any coast I wanted without fear of losing it on my continent. And I like the extra trade routes, and cothons are a fantastic harbor replacement. Hungary can construct their cities pretty fast when placed right, which is my favorite thing about them. Haven't played the others yet, but I'm looking forward to Maori and Mali. Ottomans is a bit warmongery for me so it's lower on my list (but of COURSE I want to try them eventually) and I'm apprehensive about a Canada playthrough.

    -The refinements to R&F systems are also worth the price, especially Emergencies being so much better and more valuable.

    -World Congress: overall I like it, but for me I end up having to be torn with the desire to be active in the Congress or to withhold all of my favor to HOPEFULLY attempt a diplo victory.

    -Diplomatic victory: is just much too difficult to realistically win most of the time. I've pulled it off once. Sure, it was nice to see the AI team up to take me down a notch once or twice, but the WC is the main way to get those points. Aid requests and other alternative forms of the points don't come fast enough. And when you're too far ahead, the AI all repeatedly teams up to block you from more points/take them away and trading diplo favor - it becomes too gamey and a hoardfest of a currency that is too difficult to get, and that the AI can always exploit due to fewer votes and block voting being more valuable since votes scale in cost. A bit disappointing really.

    -Can't speak for the new science victory since I haven't tried it yet.

    -New units: it was nice having them flesh out the upgrade lines. The GDR is still ridiculous, but I do like how they were ultimately implemented with the upgrades coming from new techs, so it's less stupid than the Civ V version (that being said, I have seen the AI spam these and...that shouldn't be that easy).

    -Future era: there are some cool goodies here, but so many of them come too late to have a real impact on my games. I wish there was a historic moment for the first seastead you build btw because don't you think floating cities would be a big deal?

    -Cahokia mounds are awesome

    i'm sure there's more I didn't touch on, but overall I would say it is a good/very good expansion that has nailed the one-more-turn feel for me that could still use some patching and refinements to be "incredible".

    EDIT:

    Right, resources. Overall, I like the new strategic resource system. But...make infantry maybe use your niter as its maintenance per turn instead of oil. Too many units use oil, and while mech infantry has a reason to use oil...foot infantry doesn't as much. i get the idea of making all melee (offensive) foot units use resources, but there is just so much demand on oil, moving infantry off of it will ease up that supply a bit while it still remaining late game's most valuable consumable in terms of units/power in many ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
    Kmart_Elvis, Bosque and King Rad like this.
  10. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

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    Mali
    Rolling in so much money and faith
    railroads everywhere
    Solar panels and Wind powers everywhere
    Flooded the world
    Make 10 GDR
    razed half of two continents, shooting lasers into space, FUN FUN FUN!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  11. orasis

    orasis Prince Supporter

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    I want earthquakes and tsunamis! Yes, yes and yes!!!
    I hated the warmonger points system but at least it was a lot clearer to see how you would be affected -- How??? ... That system was much less intutive than grievances!

    I think that sums it up. GS... with it's issues (I'm sure some of the stuff will be patched) is FUN. --- Especially the industrial era onward. That has always been a problem with CIV games in general. If you had a large military by that time... you could basically click 'next turn' until victory. Not so much anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2019
  12. Eliminator_Sr

    Eliminator_Sr Prince

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    I haven't purchased GS yet mainly because Firaxis didn't really address the main things I was hoping for. They did add diplomatic victory but sounds like it isn't working well. They just seem to be adding more and more flawed game mechanisms. I'll probably cave and buy the expansion eventually but not till it goes on sale and after a few patch cycles. It's frustrating because I do think Civ 6 is an excellent game at it's core but there are just too many glaring flaws for me to ignore right now that they stubbornly refuse to address.
     
  13. Sagax

    Sagax Emperor

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    Fun fact: you can build Polders on the submerged tiles (as long as you have the required land tile adjacencies). So......it’s kiiiiinda the Dutch land recovery?
     
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  14. Ornen

    Ornen Warlord

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    might post a thread on it later, but i'm finding GS to be really tedious. adds a lot of clutter to the game without adding much to speak of in terms of strategic decision-making, and extends the late game (for science especially) with a lot of boring box-checking. the new civs are pretty cool but otherwise GS mostly made the game worse
     
  15. InDubioProReo

    InDubioProReo Warlord

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    I think this game is way too complex for AI to actually grasp and provide the player with a challenge. So many techs, eurekas, civics, buildings etc....I love all of the new features, but I think it's probably impossible to create an AI that can make use of all Civ VI offers and challenge the player.
     
  16. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I do like the melting ice caps feature, I was really noticing it in my current game with my cities settled near the South pole. Though I feel they block a little too much sea access around the continents near the poles. It's not like we can't get around Africa or South America today, the seas are wide open. Perhaps they should choose one pole to be more iced over than the other. It's a pretty cool fearure, not a huge impact on gameplay, but it's cool to see.
     
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  17. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I like this idea, or just have the map randomly decide between 0 and 2 iced poles, to add a bit of variation between the games.
     
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