JB2 - Neo-Fascists (C3C Deity)

[JustBen]

The Aztecs will give us a luxury for Ivory straight-up. The Greeks will chip in an extra 14 gpt to such a deal. Grabbing MilTra will cost us the entire economy you see in Greebley's screenshot. I'm seriously doubting that we'll be able to turn entertainment down even after such a deal.

With 16 turns to go on our saltpeter deal, I feel like it's wasteful to not pour that into units. The flipside is, of course, that at 2gpt a pop, we may not be able to afford much of an army. We have enough banks that we could produce cavalry only where we have banks, but the support cost will drag our economy anyway. (With most of the core banks completed, we can't reasonably hope for new constructions to any better than pay for the new units, anyway.)

So that's the situation. My kneejerk reaction is to cancel our strictly-per-turn gunpowder deal with the Mayans (rep is hit but not blackened) and settle in until we can industrialize and maybe even get some artillery. But if we do that, we won't be kicking Greece off of our land for quite some time -- possibly too long to ever get any use out of their cities.

I don't have the time to deal with this right now. I'd love to hear opinions on this -- aggro or builder?

 

[Greebley]

The Saltpeter is good good for: Muskets, Cannon, and Cavalry.

My primary reason for making the deal was to get the Cannon. We would need a very big stack of them to take out infantry.

I guess my strongest reason for going for Greece is not so much to get the towns up and running, but rather that there is probably significant risk of our good towns flipping to Greece with them having 10x our culture. [Edit: I am guessing we need 2 1/2 units for every square of overlap to prevent flips - which is 15 or so in some towns. The 2 1/2 comes from assuming we have max capitol distance of 4 so 10/4].

My opinion on the best plan of action is to make both deals (trade for both Luxes) which would allow us to get our Lux rate to 0 (with a few taxmen in towns without Markets). The first Lux is worth +2 happiness, the second +3 if I remember correctly. This gives us 125 gpt or so which we get Mil Trad and still have some left over to build more units. We then spend 20 turns building cannon, and Cavalry after which we take out the Greek cities and possibly consider establishing a beach head on the other continent (probably after the Greek war so we don't get swamped - like taking out the rest of America if it is still alive).

I think the rule about not building the TOE will not effect us all that much

 

[JustBen]

AD 1050 (Inherited Turn)
Trebizond is building a Galleon and I'm not sure why [post-game edit: cf. Turn 7]. Switched to Granary (only size 7).
Aztecs make us chip in an extra 7 gpt for the marginal gain we get for the new lux; we still have a net +7gpt for the acquisition of 2 luxuries. This lets us fire all specialists except for a lone entertainer in a town building a Marketplace. The starvation in Teayo will let me keep our "free" gambit research a while longer, which I'll go for. Sometimes the AI seems to seriously neglect Sanitation; it's a worthwhile run. We have 13 turns of credit due on deals for the USA who looks like it's in its death throes. Because of that, I go ahead and pay them 80 gpt for MT (NO WAY they get Ivory, though!).
As our foes perish, our Ivory monopoly loses power.

AD 1060 (1)
All of their moves were pretty reasonable, but I catch a few units on GoTo. That's poor SG etiquette. It is at this point (a turn late ) that I recall the large stack of Medieval Infantrymen in the north. They're not going to be of any use any time soon. Typically I'd rather do grunt work with extra units, but with the New Republic, they're siphoning off some 10-20 gpt from our extremely lean treasury. They hurry a Courthouse and a Library in Nicomedia and Teayo respectively. Upgrade a few Knights.

AD 1070 (2)
Caesarea Cav > Cav
Nicomedia C'house > Market

AD 1080 (3)
Varna Cannon > Cav
Heraclea Temple > Cannon
Trebizond Granary > Barracks (veto-able, but it has "enough" tiles w/o culture)
Naissus Musket > Cannon
Great news! The Aztecs electrically irrigated our Ivory penninsula, so I start building more farms from their 1 square.

IT: Aztecs, Gringos make peace.

AD 1090 (4)
Adrianople Cav > Cav
Teayo Library > C'house
Last of the Knights upgraded. USA down to 1 city surrounded by the hostile Greeks.

AD 1100 (5)
Nothing.

IT: SQUISH! The Greeks wipe out the Americans and we get rich. Then they start ToE.

AD 1110 (6)
Constantinople Cav > Cav
I hate to fund the Mayans, but it's that or get nothing for our Ivory. And pay an extra 70gpt for Steam Power. I pull the trigger, paying Ivory, 106gpt, and 346 up-front, leaving us at +213gpt. We have 2 Coal and barely miss an (admittedly corrupt) Ironworks city. C'est la vie. Sanitation is around, but we might as well get it for free in 37. Industrialization would run us some 180 gpt. I'm not inclined to get us mired in another builder cycle yet, so I decide to just collect the cash.

AD 1120 (7)
Smyrna Cav > Cav
I suddenly realize, with horror, what the Galleon I vetoed a while back was for. I waste a couple shields in Dyrrachium -- about as corrupt as it gets -- to rectify my error.

AD 1130 (8)
Caesarea Cav > Cav
Varna Cav > Cav
Heraclea Cannon > Cannon
Dyrrachium Galleon > Market
Ship a settler and a trio of garrisons southward.

AD 1140 (9)
Naissus Cannon > Cannon
Workers.

IT: Mayans expect an extra gpt to get our 2 luxes from them. Paid gladly.

AD 1150 (10)
Adrianople Cav > Cav
Unload Settler & escorts on the mainland. A toehold here will be very useful in the future; it was the least-aggressive settlement we had access to.

Not much to say. Prioritize completing the trans-Byzantine railway so that when our Greek deal is up in 10 turns (or so; forget the exact #) we can swiftly move from the northern city to the southern. Industrialization is available if we want to go for it. After it, we'll want Replaceable Parts. Badly. With Artillery we can fight any war we need to; without it, we're just wheeling cannons around.

Tied To The Whipping Post

Roster:
Ben
Kuningas (up next!)
TedJackson (on deck)
Greebley

 

[Greebley]

Sorry about the gotos. I am usually pretty good about remembering not to have any post-my-turn gotos, but I probably got tired toward the end and used them. I usually go through and activate units that might be on gotos but must have not done that step either. I will endeavor to be more careful about it.

Getting steam-power will really help getting our production. It is also interesting that you can still do gpt deals after the elimination of America. I am glad that those do not ruin your rep when a civ dies. Or did we take a small rep hit for it?

I was thinking about our city on the other continent. It would probably be better on a hill if we have a choice in the matter. Also I would consider rushing walls. It will get hit hard by the greeks if we declare to clear the island. Its probably a pipe-dream, but if we could get to rep parts or nationalism it would really help to have infantry defenders or riflemen to guard our toe. We could try tech-stealing nationalism from the Greeks to "declare war", the downside being if we fail the first attempt

 

[JustBen]

Breaking a deal with resources involved blackens your credit rating; breaking a deal with gpt involved only hurts it. My plays assumed that the magnitude of the deals were irrelevant; don't know about the soundness of that.

As you can see below, Greebley, I agree with your placement idea. I had to sacrifice closeness to the motherland, but it was the least-aggressive settlement we could build, on or off of a hill. Notice the volcano damage nearby; hopefully Vesuvio there won't pop again this game.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, I like that spot. It is probably the spot I was thinking about when I first switched to the Galleon. I read somewhere you can't get crunched by a volcano if the are 2 moves away??

Looking at the mini-map - The 3 AI are all impressively large. It'll be interesting trying to fight on the main continent.

 

[Kuningas]

I have been sick last 4 days. I don't know when I can concentrate on SG:s again. I ask for skip.

 

[TedJackson]

Got it

@JustBen: It might be worth advertising for a couple of extra players to ease the roster a little


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

JB2-1150AD

Pre-flight checks... OK

Press button...
Greece declares war on Aztecs
Trebizond Barracks - Temple (need border expansion)

1 - 1160AD
Iconium founded on foreign soil - Harbour (rush next turn)
Galleon heads home (to pick up a couple of workers)
Cannon move North
Workers rail...
I spot an opportunity for Industrialisation -
Buy Industrialisation from Aztec for WM, Coal, 1059gp + 55gpt
I'll let the current builds complete then start Factories

IBT
Spot Greek transports (& escorts) heading for Marathon
Constantinople Cav - Factory
Chalcedon Market - Lib (Border expansion)
Amorium Market - Temple (cultural pressure)
Sparta (Greece) completes ToE

2 - 1170AD
Cannon move North
Galleon heads for home
Workers rail...
Chalcedon fires specialists
Adrianople fires taxman, hires scientist
Iconium hurries Harbour for 116gp

IBT
Greek Transports arrive at Marathon
Caesarea Cav - Factory
Varna Cav - Factory
Heraclea Cannon - Cannon
Naissus Cannon - Bank
Iconium Harbour - Lib

3 - 1180AD
Workers rail..
Cannon move North
Galleon arrives at Dyrrachium (fortified for now)
Maya & Greece have Sanitation

IBT
Aztecs land Cav by Halicarnassus

4 - 1190AD
Workers rail...

IBT
Constantinople riots???
Caesarea riots
Nicea riots
Varna riots
Smyrna riots
Heraclea riots
Trebizond riots
Chalcedon riots
Sardica riots
Naissus riots
Dyrrachium riots
Septum riots
Nicomedia riots
Ancyra riots
Brusa riots

5 - 1200AD
We lost the Aztec Wines somehow while there were still 6 turns left on the deal
The Aztecs still have 3 Wines connected but none are showing up for trade although Incense is available. Aztecs are (and have been) at war with both Greece & Maya so where have the Wines gone?
I'll buy their WM and see what's what
Buy WM from Aztecs for WM + 68gp
It looks as if all 3 Wines have beeen pillaged
The only Lux available for trade is Incense (Aztecs) with a source under Texcoco.
Buy Incense from Aztecs for Ivory + 267gp (best deal I could get)
Reset all the specialists
Workers rail...

IBT
More Greek Naval movements
Mayan fleet shows up South of Brusa
Adrianople Cav - Factory
Order restored

6 - 1210AD
Workers rail... The NW/SE rail link is now complete
Hawk WM

IBT
Saltpeter deal expires - as Maya want 350gp + 40gpt I don't renew
More Greek & Mayan naval manoeuvres
Septum Market - Temple
Ancyra Bank - Temple

7 - 1220AD
Workers rail... connecting outlying cities
Hawk WM

IBT
Greek Navy heads South out of our waters
Amorium Harbour - Temple
Brusa Aqueduct - Market

8 - 1230AD
Workers rail...
Hawk WM

IBT
Heraclea Cannon - Court
Sardica Market - Aqueduct

9 - 1240AD
Workers rail...
Brusa hires taxman
Hawk WM

IBT
Smyrna Cav - Granary
Chalcedon Lib - Temple

10 - 1250AD
Workers rail... Coastal ring road

Notes
Aztecs are under pressure from both Greece and Maya. Their Wines & Silks are both disconnected making Lux deals difficult.

Maya had no coal so I managed to get Industrialisation at a discount.

I've tried to build up a nest egg to allow the next player a shot at buying Electricity.

I've started Temples in several cities as the lux situation makes Cathedrals attractive.

Basic inter-city rail links are complete & I've started railing the Coastal tiles. Once that is complete then we should probably start looking at maximising the shield potential of our cities.

I let the Saltpetre deal expire as we aren't ready to kick Greece of our turf just yet and there was no point in paying through the nose for it.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[Kuningas]

I can ease the roster. Do you accept my "got it"?

 

[JustBen]

Sure, K; we'll call it a swap instead of a skip.

Roster:
Roster:
Ben
Kuningas (up next!)
TedJackson
Greebley (on deck)

 

[Kuningas]

1250AD - inherited
Library rushed in Iconium.

IT Furs deal ends. Constantinople riots, I go to city screen and hire clowns in every city to prevent other riots.
1255AD
Nicae Bank ->Temple
Trebizond Temple ->Cathedral
Iconium Library ->Trebuchet

Ivory to Greece for furs and 110g.

1260AD

Greece started Hoover Dam.
1265AD
Ancyra: Temple ->Cathedral

1270AD
Nicomedia marketplace ->Aqueduct

1275AD

1280AD

Maya offer MA vs Aztec
1285AD
Caesarea: Factory->Coal Plant
Nicae: Temple ->Cathedral
Heraclea: Temple ->Cathedral
Chakcedon:Temple ->Cathedral
Naissus: Bank ->Factory

2570g and WM to Actec for The Corporation.

1290AD
Varna: Factory ->Cathedral
Amorium: Temple ->Cathedral

1295AD
Septum: Aqueduct ->Temple

IT Renew Ivory and 40g to Maya for Dyes and Spices.
1300AD
Constantinople: Factory ->Stock Exchange
Adrianople: Factory ->Stock Exchange

notes:
I agree Ted. I continued to construct Temples and Cathedrals.

The Corporation wasn't bad deal. We are buying techs long time anyway.


The Save

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Things look in order

IBT: Constantanople riots, when it was fine before. Looks like we lost a Lux?
Dyraccium: Market->Aquaduct
Greeks Complete the Hoover Dam in Sparta.

1305 AD:
Change Iconium to Barracks and Rush (So we can upgrade units). Raise Lux to 10%

Could be bad. All our deals with the Aztecs suddenly broke - No, it appears to be ok - they will still trade tech for per turn stuff and have no lux to trade us. I think they lost the lux they were giving us.

Well we had gpt deals with America that were cut off without killing our rep. I will do the same with the Aztecs.
Trade 190 gpt, world map, and 210 gold for Electricity.
Trade 180 gpt, 450 gold for Rep Parts.
We could have traded lux and coal but that seemed very foolish.

Upgrade an Pike/Musket for each of the 6 cities that Greece can attack in 1 turn. Its pretty expensive!


IBT:
Sardica: Aquaduct->Temple
Iconium: Barracks->Walls

1310 AD:
Upgrade an Infantry and Iconium and I have spent almost all the nice money Kuningas left me.

IBT:
Caesarea: Coal Plant->Cathedral
Iconium deposed us and joins the Greeks. We have lost our city on the other continent.

1315 AD:
Greeks have Incense! I do the trade as our 10%Lux is costing us more money than buying the Lux.
Greeks also look like they have entered the modern Era. Anyone know for sure? Here is the Pic.

IBT:
Varna:Cathedral->Coal Plant

1320 AD: Aztecs have 7 cities. This is down a few from when I started.

IBT:
Smyrna: Cathedral->Infantry

1325 AD: Aztecs have 6 cities. Finishing up our lands is going rapidly now we have rep parts.

IBT: The Greeks have a large number of Destroyers
Adrianople: Stock Exchange->Coal Plant
Septum: Temple->Bank
Ancyra: Cathedral->Factory
Brusa: Market->Bank

1330 AD: Aztecs have 5 cities. I detect a pattern. Upgrade a cannon

IBT:
Caesarea: Cathedral->Infantry

1335 AD: Aztecs have 4 cities. lol

IBT:
Constantanople: Stock Exchange->Coal Plant
Nicomedia: Aquaduct->Barracks (front line town)

1340 AD: Aztecs break the pattern. They have 2 cities. Perhaps the last chance for techs. Trade 120 gpt + 307 gold for Scientific Method (couldn't afford refining or steel)

IBT:
Caesarea: Infantry->Stock Exchange
Sardica: Temple->Bank

1345 AD: Aztecs have 1 city. Mayans have wines and silks to trade.

IBT: The Rampaging Mayan forces destroy the Aztecs. How sad.
Adrianople: Coal Plant->Colosseum (since we will be able to go above size 12 soon)
Varna: Coal Plant->Stock Exchange
Trebizond: Cathedral->Bank

1350 AD: Well we have +500 gpt again I would spend several turns upgrading all our Pikes and Cannon. Then we may be ready to clear our island. If so we will need the workers as Greek bombardment will be very heavy, I suspect. If we hit them with our artillery they should head home and not get back before we make peace.

Notes:
I think Maya is also into the Modern era (BTW has anyone ever made pictures of all the leaders so you know who is in what Era?)

We need 8 more techs to become modern ourselves. The rest of the techs may be worth stealing - Nationalism especially is very expensive.

It was nice of the Aztecs to die off for us, but now the remaining two civs are even bigger.

No Modern Era Wonders have been started.

Sanitation is in 3 turns at which point we will want some hospitals (and battlefield medicine - I think we will be warring to stop the AI).

I am hoping we can switch to Military again RSN. Artillery might be especially useful.

The Save

 

[JustBen]

Wow. That's ugly. No choice left except the sword. I'll start some guns and cavalry. Probably not the navy yet, but it's going to have to come.

"Got it."

Roster:
Ben (up next)
Kuningas (on deck)
TedJackson
Greebley

 

[Kuningas]

Confirmed Greece is in the Modern Era.
Maya is still in the Industrial.

 

[JustBen]

AD 1350 (Inherited turn)
A few tweaks. Best is shaving Adrianople's Colosseum from 3 to 2. Safe Steals are 3 large. That should allow about one steal per player's round. I say we beeline for Espionage, then run for Flight, then go Commie and hope for the best. Police Stations could be in there if we so desire. I'm not entirely happy with our Cathedral-push, but since it's already begun it would be extremely wasteful to stop now.

AD 1355 (1)
Heraclea Cathedral > Artillery
Naissus Factory > Coal Plant

IT: I accept Furs and 18 gpt from Big Al for our Ivory. Any declaration of war is coming via tech theft, so who cares about 20 turns?

AD 1360 (2)
Adrianople Col > Gun
Nicaea Cath > Factory
Teayo C'house > Aqueduct

AD 1365 (3)
Caesarea Cath > Gun
Smyrna Infantry > Gun
Dyrrachium Aqueduct > Temple
Nicomedia Barracks > Bank
I upgrade. 1440 down the tube. Infantry can wait, but when it's time to have artillery we'll want access to them immediately. I'll still do a steal before I'm done.

AD 1370 (4)
Constaninople Coal > Artillery (this town is 40spt, perfect gun factory)
Adrianople Gun > Gun

AD 1375 (5)
Caesarea Gun > Gun
Varna Stock Exchange > Gun
I'm unhappy with Hospital prospects. It doesn't improve production anywhere, and money isn't our overriding problem right now. I'd prefer to have more materiel. I'll try to sneak our desired 5 in here & there along the coast, though. Start with Smyrna, a low-production coastal city [1/5].

AD 1380 (6)
Constantinople Gun > Hospital [2/5]
Adrianople Gun > Gun

AD 1385 (7)
Caesarea Gun > Inf
Varna Gun > Gun
Heraclea Gun > Factory
Chalcedon Cathedral > Hospital [3/5]
MMing cities & tiles; not much.

AD 1390 (8)
Adrianople Gun > Gun
Naissus Coal Plant > Temple
The treasury hits 3254, but I decide to not steal. Since we still have a 1440-gold mass upgrade to perform on our Pikes, I don't want to trip a premature war. I'll leave such decisions to the next player.

AD 1395 (9)
Caesarea Inf > Inf
Varna Gun > Gun
Ancyra Factory > Coal Plant
Cleanup our coal-y messes. Again.

IT: Renew luxury trades with the Mayans. Ugh.

AD 1400 (10)
Adrianople Gun > Gun
Naissus Temple > Cathedral
Dyrrachium Temple > Granary
Amorium Cathedral > Bank?
Not much to do since I've committed to leaving big decisions to the next player.

We have 19 Cavalry (no change), 23 Artillery (never enough), 9 Infantry (but 17 Pikemen). Our enemies have about equal land (though the Mayan power graph is bigger), so neither will win Domination any time soon. We can buy saltpeter from either of them any time, so whenever we go to war against Greece we can hook up some more Cavalry. You can win a war against Mech Inf with Artillery and Cavalry if you have enough of both, so that's what I'm counting on. Next player should start stealing at some point during the next 10 turns, so we can hurry up and go to war with Greece.

Speaking of which, the Cavalry is all in Naissus. Artillery is split between Naissus and Adrianople. Workers are hanging out around Mt. Caesarea. There are a few clumps of 6 to facilitate removal of pollution.

Roster:
Ben
Kuningas (up next)
TedJackson (on deck)
Greebley

Burning and Looting

 

[Kuningas]

got it.

 

[Kuningas]

inherited - 1400AD
check ->ok

1 - 1405AD
Constantinople: Hospital ->Infantry
Caesarea: Infantry ->Infantry
Varna: Artillery ->same

Pikeman upgraded.

2 - 1410AD
Adrianople: Artillery ->same
Septum: Bank ->Harbor

They declared war on us.

Lux to 10% trying to survive here.

Bombard Pergamon. (Greece city in North)
2 reg infantry bombed to 1hp and 1 conscript to 1hp.
Lucky in RNG. One cavalry lost and Pergamon captured.

Marathon bombed from size 20 to 16. I won't attack it until size 12.

3 - 141AD
Caesarea: Infantry ->same
Varna: Artillery ->same

OMG Modern Armor.
+TOW Infantry.

Marathon at size 12.
Cavalry attack and kill (1hp) MA.
Cavalry attack and kill (1hp) TOW and promote to Elite.
Cavalry attack and die vs (1hp) Infantry.
Cavalry attack and die vs (1hp) Infantry.
Cavalry attack and kill (1hp) Infantry.
Cavalry attack and die vs (1hp) Infantry.
Cavalry attack and kill (1hp) Infantry.
Glorious Cavalry banish 21 Bombers Marathon razed.

Science up to 70% Nationalism in 8.

IT This is getting ugly.

4 - 1420AD
Andianople: Infantry ->same
Ancyra: Infantry ->same

We kill the stack 1 MA, 1 Infantry, 2 Marines and 1 tank.

Prilep founded and joined 5 workers.

IT Maya has entered in the Modern Times.
5 - 1425AD
Caesarea: Infantry ->same
Varna: Infantry ->same
Naissus Cathedral ->Infantry

I'm not sure if I should continue. Situation is terrible. Some body defensive war expert? Greebley can you play next 5 turns?

Naval invasion

 

[Greebley]

I am not sure if I qualify as an expert or not. This is one case though that I would start drafting citizens. 2 turns of draft would get us 3+ defenders in all coastal cities. The odds would be decent that they win. This would mean it would take more marines to capture a city. Even more importantly, the AI might just not try it. Also spread out any artillery so that the marine takes damage when incoming.

Ted is up next, but I know he asked for a skip in another SG. I don't mind making an attempt, but I too may have troubles with it. Sometimes there is just not a lot one can do.