JB2 - Neo-Fascists (C3C Deity)

:help:

Play it out, Kuningas. Do your best. We knew we were in a rough spot several rotations ago. Hammer Mechs down to 1 hp with artillery and then throw cavalry at them till they die. Empty the interior to place infantry on threatened shoreline.

If you decide it's the way to go, call the Mayans. Get an alliance. Hope for the best.

Remember to look on the bright side, guys: if we survived till rails and then suffered a millitary defeat, it would be proof positive that this mod does exactly what it's supposed to! :mischief:

@Greebley: I don't think we can wait another 9 turns for Nationalism. Trying to steal it is what got us into this mess in the first place. :blush:
 
Oops, You are right, Ben. No drafting. I was forgetting we didn't have nationalism yet.

I would switch those hospitals over to infantry then even if it means losing shields, and moving existing units into coastal cities.

Ben, I do agree that you change does in fact remove the problem of the AI getting bogged down with communism. The AI research has not slowed down at all.
 
Hi guys,

just to let you know that hopefully I've sorted out my problems but that I can't be certain until about this time tomorrow.

If I haven't posted by this time tomorrow then please auto skip me until the weekend.


Ted
p.s. I haven't had time to look at the save but on the face of it if we can kick the Greeks of our island then we should be OK :)
 
Yeah, I'm usually supportive of going to 5-per in the Modern Age. Mostly I just really hate to see any more skips going on -- even half-skips. If Ted can't play, you should definitely take your time and play the last 5 whenever you can get to them.
 
Just to let you all know that I won't need to be skipped :)


Ted
 
5 -1425AD

Change Chalcedon, Amorium to Infantry.
Septum, Dyrrachium to Barracks.
Caesarea to Settler.

6 -1430AD
Adianople: Infantry->same
Caesarea: Settler->Infantry
Dyrrachium: Barracks->Infantry
Septum: Barracks->Infantry
Ancyra: Infantry->Barracks :o

Chalcedon changed to Bank. There isn't barracks and I don't want to lose shields.

Halicarnus razed with lost of 5 Cavalry and 3 Infantry.
Vidin founded ->Aqueduct, 4 workers joined.

Lux rate to 30%

IT "Production in Heraclea has been sabotaged!" I haven't seen that for a long time
Greeks land 8 units and 10 Destroyers bombard Chalcedon.
7 -1435AD
Nicae: Factory->Infantry
Varna: Infantry->same
Trebizond: Hospital->Infantry
Sardica:Bank->Cathedral
Ancyra:Barracks->Infantry

I kill the stack with lost of 2 Cavalry and Infantry.

25 gpt to Maya for Wines, Lux rate to 20%.

IT I noticed, AI won't do amphibious warfare when cities are guarded by 2-3 Infantry. Instead they landed 6 units.
8 -1440AD
Adrianople: Infantry->same
Caesarea: Infantry->same
Naissus: Infantry->same
Brusa: Bank->Temple

I kill the 6 units with lost of Infantry and Cavalry.

PT to Greeks for PT and 260gp. Nice :) I don't see any reason to continue the war. Ivory to Greeks for Furs and 155gp.

Science up Nationalism in two turns.

IT Greece declared war on the Maya :(
Someone is still sabotaging production in Heraclea.
9 -1445AD
Varna: Infantry ->Library
Teayo: Aqueduct ->Marketplace

IT Nationalism ->Espionage
10 -1450AD
Adrianople: University->Infantry
Caesarea: University->Infantry
Varna: Library->Infantry

-------------

The Save
 
Well contained Kuningas :goodjob:

Smart move on taking peace so soon.

I'll try to make a start tonight but I probably won't finish until tomorrow evening (~26hrs)


Ted
 
It sounds like you handled the war well, Kuningas. We got the island to oursefves at long last! While it was rough on us, it is nice to see the AI can actually use marines.

Ted,
I was thinking we should go for max research on Espionage. We can get it in 5 at -26 gpt. Gettting a spy to see how their space ships are going seems vital. It will also make tech stealing much more successful.

We will probably also want a force that can take out capitols. So I guess that means boats and lots of artillery (I am hoping we can get tanks before we need to use it)
 
JB2-145AD

Pre-flight checks...
Teayo about to riot - hire Scientist (may come back to hurry Market)
Everything else in order :thumbsup:
Maya will sell us Espionage for Coal, WM, 598gp + 21gpt (~1000gp)
To self research it would cost us:
7 turns @307gpt ~2100gp
6 turns @363gpt ~2100gp
5 turns @424gpt ~2100gp
4 turns @546gpt ~2200gp
or 2600gp to steal carefully so no contest as it also has the benefit of propping up the Maya who are failing against the Greeks
Buy Espionage + WM from Maya for Coal, 605gp + 21gpt
Buy WM from Greece for WM + 4gp
Sell WM to Maya for 4gp
Adrianople switches to Intelligence Agency
Research switches to Steel - the best we can manage is 9 turns @ 363gpt ~3200gp
On second thoughts Switch to Refining (see if we have Oil)
Research 0% (50 turns @ +504gpt, 10gp in the bank)

Press button...
Greeeks request audience - they want MA vs Maya & RoP - I decline
Some naval skirmishes between Greece and Maya

1 - 1455AD
Reset Pergamon to all Scientist
MM Teayo for Market before growth
Clear pollution at Naissus & reset citizens
Clear pollution at Nicea & reset citizens
Greece are in Anarchy, Maya are in Republic

IBT
Maya request audience - They want MPP & RoP - I decline
Caesarea Inf - Hospital
Varna Inf - Arty
Ancyra Stock - Hospital

2 - 1460AD
MM Pergamon to 1 Scientist, 7 CE
Swap Smyrna's Scientists for Engineers
Swap Varna's Scientists for taxmen
Swap Brusa's Scientist for Engineer

IBT
Nicea Hospital - Settler (need to clear pollution to get it in 1)
Naissus Stock - Hospital
We get the Wall Street message

3 - 1465AD
Pergamon reset to 1 Scientist, 6 Engineers
Pollution cleared at Nicea - hire Policeman to get settler in 1
Pollution cleared at Caesarea - switch to Wall Street
Greece is in Fascism, Maya still Republic

IBT
Nicea Settler - Stock
Varna Arty - Hospital
Heraclea Hospital - Colosseum
Amorium Hospital - Factory
Intombe (Greece) completes Universal Suffrage

4 - 1470AD
Samosata founded - Harbour
Mine Horses & join Worker to Samosata

IBT
Chalcedon Hospital - Bank
We get the Battlefield Medicine message
Brusa Temple - Cathedral

5 - 1475
Brusa Hires 2 Engineers and is running @ -1fpt

IBT
Ancyra Hospital - Arty

6 - 1480AD
Reset Pergamon
Join another worker to Samosata

IBT
Adrianople Intelligence Agency - Hospital
JB2-1480AD-IntAgency.jpg

Heraclea riots - we seem to have lost a lux :(
Trebizond riots - bugger this! I scroll ahead hiring clowns & taxmen
Naissus Hospital - Colosseum
Sparta (Greece) completes SETI

7 - 1485AD
Greece wants 46gpt for Gems
Maya wants 38gpt for Silks
10% Lux costs 42gpt
I decide to go with 10% Lux as Mayan Silks look to be under threat soon
Reset all cities
Maya want 3580gp + 28gpt for Refining, Greece want 3550gp + 80gpt
Here comes the big moment
Plant Spy in Greece (132gp) - Failed :( - We lose furs as Greece declares war
Plant Spy in Maya (108gp) - Success
Safe steal of Refining from Maya (3264gp) - Success :)
Research switched to Steel
We have Oil 2SE of Caesarea :dance:
We get immediate WW even though Greece declared. I'll have to risk the Mayan Silks
Buy Silks from Maya for WM, 26gp + 24gpt - I chose not to use MA to lower the price
Lux 20%
Septum Hires taxman (Cathedral at EOT)
Dyrrachium hires taxman & switches to Cathedral (6 turns)
Redeploy our pitiful military to ensure at least 2 Inf and an Artillery garrison our coastal cities

IBT
Solitary Greek Bomber hits Dyrrachium
Caesarea Wall Street - Hospital
JB2-1485AD-WallStreet.jpg

Varna Hospital - Arty
Septum Cathedral - Arty
Ancyra Arty - Inf

8 - 1490AD
Septum fires taxman
Amorium hires Scientist
I It looks as if Maya have retaken their Wines

IBT
Lone Greeek Bomber misses Dyrrachium
Trebizond Bank - Inf

9 - 1495
Clear Pollution at Varna & reset citizens

IBT
Dyes & Spices from Maya for Ivory comes up for renewal (we were getting 11gpt) - They want 8gpt - I add in Wines and they only want 30gpt - go for it!
Greek fleet arrives NE Samosata (2 Transports, 6 Destroyers)
Adrianople Hospital - Arty
Varna Arty - Arty
Naissus Colosseum - Arty
Samosata Harbour - Barracks
Nicomedia Bank - Arty
Ancyra Inf - Arty

10 - 1500AD
Bombard Greek Fleet - redline all ships
Lux 10%

Notes
Greece are increasing in Score & Culture but Maya are increasing in Power.

Combustion is only 2 steals away (at about 5 turns per steal) then we can take the war to Greece (or Maya). The only problem is a lack of Armies :) We'll have to try & set up a beachhead city otherwise we'll have to ship any Leaders back and forth.

Most of our Artillery are in Samosata. I suggest the next player redistribute them around the Coastal cities in case of a Marine attack.

Our Workers and Slaves are fortified to the South of Adrianople (separately) to make finding them easier.

We had to plant a Spy with the Greeks at some point so I did it as soon as I could. Luck wasn't on our side there but that's Civ. At least it gives the next player something to do :)

The save is > here <


Ted
 
Preturn: Minor changes: Ancyra changed to infantry, so we have some for inner cities and attack force. Vidin will can grow and still get its aquaduct in 2.

I don't know if Ted tried planting the spy in the pre-turn. He didn't mention trying it again, but I will wait until next turn to be sure.

IBT: Two modern armors are dropped off in our lands.
Prilep: Aquaduct->Harbor
Caesarea: Hospital->Battlefield Med.

1505 AD: Our spy is caught and angers the greeks.
Looking at our cities, it looks like a win if I allow the inner better cities to have the tiles instead of the coastal ones. I move some citizens out to sea in coastal cities and allow our inner less corrupt cities to use the shields more effectively. Also move Battlefield Medicine to Adrianople in 7. Caesarea is set to Colosseum which it is missing. I also speed growth on some inner cities (where it doesn't make a difference in production times) so they can grow.

Go looking for capitols. Athens is coastal which is good. The Mayan capitol is a good bit inland which is less good if we have to stop them.

I lose 2 cavalry trying to take out 2 1hp modern armor.

IBT: Two stacks of greek boats are seen.
Nicea: Stock Exchange->Coal Plant
Varna: Artillery->Artillery
Heraclea: Colosseum->Factory
Naissus: Artillery->Artillery
Vidin: Aquaduct->Harbor
Teayo: Market->
Ancyra: Infantry->Bank

1510 AD: Plant spy fails again. BTW does trying every turn lower your chances? Bombard boats.

IBT: An invisible boat (submarine) sinks our Dromon. A Modern Armor is dropped off. The bombarded set retreated without landing.
Smyrna: Stock Exchange->Hospital
Dyrrachium: Cathedral->Granary

1515 AD: Use an elite Infantry to take out the MA, but no leader. Bombard boats
Will skip the spy attempt just in case your chance the next turn is lower if you the previous.

IBT: Bombarded boats go away (they were empty anyway after dropping off the MA).
Caesarea: Artillery->Artillery
Varna: Artillery->Colosseum
Septum: Artillery->Harbor
Ancyra: Infantry->Infantry

1520 AD: Clean some pollution. Finally plant spy. The good news is that Greece has 0 space ship parts. Less good news (but not suprising) might be the 136 Mechs, 30 MA, and 32 Destroyers, etc.
Naissus: Artillery->Artillery
Amorium: Colosseum->Bank

IBT: Another MA is dropped off.

1525 AD: Bombard boats and MA.
Elite Infantry loses vs the 1 hp MA.
A second Elite Infantry wins.
The cost of buying steel and stealing steal are very close. I go for the sure thing and buy it from the Mayans.

Notice unit costs are high, that most of our workers have nothing to do, AND the recent towns we took are less than size 7. I merge in workers until we reach size 7 and cannot merge anymore by the variant rules.

Notice Teayo doesn't have a Harbor and really needs one. I switch.

Our lone scientist is on Authoritarianism that has police stations.

IBT: Greek boats leave
Caesarea: Artillery->Artillery
Varna: Colosseum->Granary
Septum: Harbor->Infantry
Ancyra: Infantry->Infantry
Oops forgot to check Pergamon after adding citizens/

1530 AD: Not much to do this turn

IBT: No Greeks.
Prilep: Harbor->Temple
Varna: Granary->Artillery
Sardica: Cathedral->Barracks
Naissus: Artillery->Artillery
Teayo: Harbor->Temple

1535 AD: Thumb twiddling

IBT
Adrianople: Battlefield Medicine->Artillery
Caesarea: Artillery->Artillery
Trebizond: Infantry->Infanty
Vidin: Harbor->Temple
Ancyra: Infantry->Infantry
Pergamon: Temple->Market
We catch the Mayans trying to plant a spy.

1540 AD: I may need to attack the Mayans to be able to do anything. The Greeks are cowering.

IBT:
Nicea:Coal Plant->Granary
Varna: Arillery->Artillery
Naissus: Artillery->Artillery
Dyrrachium: Granary->Factory

1545 AD: I decide to buy Combustion from the Mayans as the 227 gpt price seems reasonable for a sure thing.compared to the 3600 cost of stealing that is iffy. Suprisingly, Mass Production is cheaper! It is only 196 gpt, so I get that as well.

We now have 2062 gold and 121 gpt left - enough for a steal if we so desire. I switch some of our better coastal towns to Commercial docks to get more gold. Not completely sure we have enough good coastal towns to justify the cost, but it will get some money back. Unfortunately, I did make a small miscalculation. I am so used to going for Hoover, that I forgot electronics are required for tanks. I was thinking we were only 1 tech away - we actually need 3.

I upgrade our one Galleon to Transport

IBT:
Adrianople: Artillery->Artillery
Caesarea: Artillery->Artillery
Ancyra: Infantry->Infantry
Brusa: Cathedral->Barracks

1550 AD: Little to do

Notes:
I am not sure if the trades were a good idea or not. They just seemed more reliable for only a bit more. It also depends on how much gpt we get with comercial docks.

I would start on Transports and Destroyers after we get Comercial Docks.

I would also be very tempted to try a middle of the road steal from the Mayans. They are republic which I think is easier than Fascist to steal from. We do risk war, but get a lot of money back if that happens. We do lose out big time on Lux's though. Worst case is to fail, but no war actually.

Another possibility is you can use our coal as a bargaining chip to trade with the Mayans, though it seems pricey from them for some reason.

Greece will now make peace and give us something for it. I left this for the next player. You can actually trade everything for atomic theory in the peace treaty, though that may not be wise.

I irrigated to increase the size of some cities (and this was a good time as we only needed 50 shields of Artillery every 2 turns). We will want to replace by mines again. Depends on how big we want the internal cities. We may also be able to get a significant increase in our gpt if we worked all the coastal tiles. Most cities still have some growing to do. We may want even more irrigation of coastal cities to get them to size.

I got us up to 42 artillery which should be good at capitol busting.

Here is our current empire:

JB2_AD1550.JPG


>> The Save <<
 
Thanks guys!

This is a truely interesting game as compared to virtually all the other ones going on at the moment, if for no other reason than the A.I seem in a position to give you a real headache. I loved their capture and destruction of your capital, hell, for a second you seemed to be in a world of pain. Being in a tight spot is fun, whilst these simple cruises to victory seen in so many succession games bore the tits off me.

Good luck and :goodjob:
 
I wish I had better news to report. At least we're Seafaring for that time in the distant future when we actually have a navy:

I like the idea of a steal. I think coal is just worth less in C3C.

AD 1550 (Inherited turn)
I get the entire worker force for my MMing! A cop in Trebizond shaves a turn off of the Dock and a buck. Workers shave one off of Dyrrachium. Etc. I really want Flight but can't pull it off. We have 1 infantry in each inland city and 2 infantry & 2 guns on each coastal city.

AD 1555 (1)
Nicaea Granary > Commercial Dock
Varna Artillery > Artillery
Naissus Artiller > Infantry
We can't do anything about the Greeks for quite a while. I accept 100 gold from them for peace so our Greek WW can wind down a bit before we have to do something about hurting them. Mayans go from Gracious to Polite.

AD 1560 (2)
Adrianople Gun > Inf
Caesarea Gun > Gun
Sardica didn'twriteitdown > Commercial Dock
Septum Commercial Dock > Granary (due before next growth)
Nicomedia Gun > CDock
Ancyra Inf > Inf
I can't even afford a careful steal yet. Still no hope for Flight.

AD 1565 (3)
Varna Gun > Gun
Chalcedon Bank > Transport
Naissus Inf > Inf
Hm... Greece still has under 50% of the world. And has Modern Armor.

AD 1570 (4)
Adrianople Inf > Gun
Caesarea Gun > Gun
Nicaea Dock > Destroyer
Samosata Aqueduct > Market (renamed "New Constantinople")
Ancyra Inf > Colosseum
My hands are tied without a fleet. I have my doubts about the dock push, but we certainly are poverty-stricken.

AD 1575 (5)
Varna Gun > Gun
Trebizond Dock > Destroyer
Naissus Inf > Inf
Smoke-Jaguar will offer us Flight for goods worth a total of $6000. I'd rather steal twice, resource imports notwithstanding. Greece can replace almost all of them. But with only $3021 liquid, I have to hold off for a few more turns so we don't lose precious interest.

AD 1580 (6)
Adrianople Gun > Gun
Caesarea Inf > Inf
Heraclea Factory > Destroyer
Septum Granary > Destroyer

AD 1585 (7)
Varna Gun > Gun
Naissus Inf > Inf
Ancyra Col > Inf
Zzz...

IT: Mayans come to hassle me. Toss them Coal & 10 gpt to keep the silks coming. Mayans begin the Internet. Wow.

AD 1590 (8)
Adrianople Gun > Gun
Caesarea Inf > Inf
Nicaea Destroyer > Destroyer
It's not maximally economical (we'll lose a bit of interest), but I want to build new stuff. First investigate Mayan Dzibilchalun for $69 (image to follow). For $3408, steal from Mayans safely:

jb2-dzibspy2.jpg


Blech. Commercial Docks, full steam ahead.

AD 1595 (9)
Varna Gun > Gun
Smyrna Hospital > Dock
Naissus Inf > Gun
Dyrrachium Dock > Destroyer
Ancyra Inf > Inf
Brusa Dock > Transport

IT: Chip in a few extra bucks for our lux deal with S.J.

AD 1600 (10)
Adrianople Gun > Gun
Caesarea Inf > Inf
Heraclea Destroyer > Destroyer
Sardica Dock > Destroyer
Vidin Temple > Market
Pergamom riots from unnoticed growth.

I dunno what to say. Save up and try to steal again? We have around 10 turns on some big deals with the Mayans. I really want Flight so we can control the sea lanes without a huge naval investment. Tanks would be nice if onl so we could build an offensive unit without needing to import a resource.

Roster:
Ben
Kuningas (requested skip; on deck)
TedJackson (up next!)
Greebley

Kuningas can't play until after the 24th, Ted. Take your time.

Limping to Victory?
 
One thing that is rather interesting is that the Mayans don't have a navy. I think they had a single transport and thats it. This as compared to the Greeks 35 destroyers.

As far as techs go, we know they have Synthetic fibers and Rocketry for modern armor, the Mayans have Miniturization (they started the internet). Interestingly, neither civ has started the UN or Manhattan, even though we know they know fusion from the fact there is Uranium in Ben's picture. Neither have built space ship parts, so it is likely they do not know, or have just recently learned Space Flight. In any case they are 6 or less techs from knowing all the required techs for the space ship.

In addition to the space ship threat, there is some culture threat. The greek culture is 80,018 now. From another game, I would estimate they are pulling in somewhere near 700 culture per turn,which gets them over 100,000 sometime near Ben's next turn (30 turns). Unlike that other game, the Mayans have over 1/2 their culture, but looking at the culture chart they are gaining in terms of the Mayans. This limits us in the damage we can do to the mayans. If we want to attack a civ on the other continent, it really should be the Greeks. Damaging the Mayan core will lead to a Greek culture win. We could also be forced to damage the Greek core if the game goes on long enough or the Mayans are damaged by the Greeks.

Both Kuningas and I (along with Barbslinger) had a game with a strong AI demonstrating a serious cultural threat in this game:

Link to Krys3

You can see how we dealt with it by reading the end of the game. Here things would be different, however, we would want to keep the Mayans within 1/2 their culture rather than trying to stop the Greeks from reaching 100,000 I think which should be easier and give us longer to deal with it.

I created an image of the culture graph to look at in the paint program to look at approximate relative culture. A very rough aproximation of the ratio is 24 : 31 for Mayan : Greek culture. Around 1450 AD the ratio was 26 : 30. It looks like this is a longer term threat provided the Greeks (or we) don't damage the Mayans. (If the ratio stays the same then in 30 turns it is 22:32, 60 turns it is 20:33, 90 turns 18:34 - so maybe a 100 turn threat at the current rate of gain. Space ship launches are thus much more urgent.
 
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