JB2 - Neo-Fascists (C3C Deity)

[TrailblazingScot]

Originally posted by JustBen
Everything you ever didn't want to know about the Mayans:

Can you explain the "victory location" marker sitting in the sea?

 

[Greebley]

I was wondering that as well, actually. Maybe Ben knows.

 

[TedJackson]

I've been ignoring it, hoping it'll go away

BTW thsi is my Got it


Ted

 

[JustBen]

No clue on the VP obelisk. I thought I'd get around to asking eventually...

There's no VP info on the F8 screen, so I don't think I left a stray win condition on. I left the map seed back on page 1, if you want to try to recreate the effect.

@Ted: Yeah, I hear you. But if the culture is as bad as Greebley says, it's gonna go away really soon if we don't take a bite out of Greece. Good luck.

 

[TedJackson]

JB2-1600AD

Pre-flight checks... OK

Press button...
Varna Artillery - Artillery
Naissus Artillery - Inf (hire Policeman to get it in 2)
Ancyra Inf - Inf

1 - 1605AD
Brusa hires 2 Police (to shave 2 turns off Transport)
Adjust all coastal towns to 2 Arty, 2 Inf
Gather Workers South of Adrianople
From the power graph it looks as if Greece has taken another town or two from Maya

IBT
Prilep Temple - Market (hire another CE)
Adrianople Arty - Inf
Caesarea Inf - Inf
Nicomedia Dock - Temple
Teayo Temple - Settler (check if needed)
Amorium Bank - Dock
Greece starts the Internet

2 - 1610AD
NTR

IBT
Nicea Destroyer - Destroyer
Varna Arty - Inf (hires 2 Police)
Chalcedon Transport - Dock (hires CE)
Naissus Inf - Inf
Ancyra Inf - Inf

3 - 1615
Destroyer & Transport head for Brusa
Clear pollution
New Constantinople about to riot - hires taxman

IBT
Maya want MA vs Greece & RoP - I decline, buying his WM instead for 6gp
Adrianople Inf - Arty
Caesarea Inf - Arty
Heraclea Destroyer - Transport
Trebizond Destroyer - Colosseum (specialist changed to CE)

4 - 1620AD
Destroyers arrive Brusa
Pollution clearing
Two more transports are due in 4 turns - giving us a grand total of 4 Transports. I think that'll have to do for starting as Greece seems to be running away at the moment.

There are still 7 turns left on the Peace Treaty so that will be about right.

I favour Iconium as our initial target, mainly because the crossing is short and it's only pop 7. As a bonus we end up on a hill.

IBT
Varna Inf - Arty
Smyrna Dock - Inf
Naissus Inf - Arty
Septum Destroyer - Hospital (hires CE)
Ancyra Inf - Arty

5 - 1625AD
Move our Navy to Vidin (jump off point)

IBT
Greek Navy enters our territory near Vidin
Adrianople Arty - Inf
Caesarea Arty - Inf
New Constantinople Market - Temple (border expansion, hires CE to shave 2 turns)

6 - 1630AD
Ask Greece to leave - they agree (pity about that)

IBT
Greek Navy leaves our waters
Nicaea Destroyer - Colosseum
Varna Arty - Inf
Naissus Arty - Inf
Ancyta Arty - Inf

7 - 1635AD
Game crashes on entering the Diplo screen so reload
We can now afford a careful steal vs Maya. AT would cost 2595 + 145gpt (5495gp) to buy and a careful steal is 2592gp but a failure would be disastrous at this point. A safe steal is 3456gp, another 5 turns, but we might be allied with the Maya by then and get a cheaper trade price. I decide to wait.

IBT
Adrianople Inf - Arty
Caesarea Inf - Arty
Heraclea Transport - Dock
Teayo Settler - Cathedral (hires 3 CE)
Brusa Transport - Transport

8 - 1640AD
Load 3 Transports (3 Inf & 3 Arty each) in Vidin

IBT
Varna Inf - Arty
Naissus Inf - Arty
Dyrrachium Destroyer - Hospital (hire 2 CE)
Ancyra Inf - Arty

9 - 1645AD
Final Transport is 1 move short of Vidin

IBT
Adrianople Arty - Inf
Caesarea Arty - Inf
Chalcedon Dock - Transport
Nicomedia Temple - Cathedral
Amorium Dock - Factory

10 - 1650AD
Our income shoots up to +668gpt
I leave this turn's moves to the next player for maximum choice

Notes
We have 3 Transports ready to sail in Vidin (9 Inf, 9 Arty) but TF #4 will need to be loaded in situ rather than docked in Vidin to avoid movement differential.

Our Destroyer fleet (7 ships) is also docked in Vidin.

We have enough money to make a safe steal against the Maya but if it goes wrong we'll be in deep doodoo. So I advise against it. We could purchase Flight now for 3750gp + 53gpt or we could wait until we're about to launch our attack on Greece and get it for 3750gp + 19gpt along with MA vs Greece.

I still favour Iconium as our toehold. It's on a hill which, once we take it, will benefit us.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[Greebley]

Kuningas, If you wanted a swap rather than I skip, then go ahead and post your "I got it" and you can play next. Otherwise, I will just post my own "I got it", probably right before I play (probably tonight).

 

[Kuningas]

"Got it" for some odd reason I forgot to post.

 

[Kuningas]

The Save

0 - Inherited
Carefully steal from Greece 2736gp, success
I choose Flight.

Load 2 Infantry, 3 Artillery and settler to 4th transporter.

Amorium switch Factory ->Stock Exchange
Naissus Artillery ->Airport
Ancyra Artillery ->Airport
Varna(FP) Artillery ->Airport
Adrianople Infantry ->Airport
Caesarea Infantry ->Airport
Chalcedon Transport ->Stock Exchange

I build 3 Airfield near the most corrupt city (Vidin).

1 - 1655AD
Nicae: Colosseum ->Infantry
Heraclea: Cdock ->Stock Exchange

2 - 1660AD
Trebizond: Colosseum ->Destroyer
Sardica: Destroyer ->Colosseum

OMG. Greece got one of the Mayan core cities.
Peace treaty expired.

3 - 1665AD
Adrianople, Caesarea, Varna(FP), Naissus, Ancyra: Airport ->Bomber
Smyrna: Infantry ->Infantry

Immediately steal from Greece 1848gp, fail escaped.

I give to Maya WM, 254gpt and MA vs Greeks for Atomic Theory.
Greece

troops landed.

IT lost: 3 destroyers vs destroyers.
4 - 1670AD
Nicaea: Infantry ->Infantry
New Constantinople: Temple ->Bank

I strike on Kabah. It's size 5 next to Iconium.
It's defended by 2 Mechs. One redlined Mech kills Infantry. 2nd and 3th Infantry kill Mechs and city is captured. Some ships banished.

I checked from the save. There were 10 Destroyers, 1 Carrier and 1 Transport.

I have only 4 healthy Destroyer. I try to kill stack of 2 Destroyer, Battleship and Transport. First bombard and miss. Second kill 4/4 Destroyer (1/4hp left). Third kill 3/4 Destroyer (3/4 hp left). Fourth kill 2/4 Battleship (4/4hp left). I must take transport down. Fifth 2/4 Destroyer kill 4/4 Transport (2/4hp left).

IT

5 - 1675AD
Adrianople: Bomber ->same
Caesarae: Bomber ->same
Varna: Bomber ->same
Naissus: Bomber ->same
Septum: Hospital ->Colosseum
I build airfield and lift 8 Infantry to the new continent.

Is't fine to play 5 turns in war times?

I left some units unmoved. Next player deal the Modern Armors.

We can grab Silks by placing city one tile South of it.

We have 5 Airports.

Destroyers and Bombers are in Vidin. Artillery and Transports are in Kabah. Workers are cleaning pollution.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. Should be able to play tonight.

 

[JustBen]

Yeah, 5-per-round is fine when we're fighting a modern war. Er, I guess we're actually fighting an industrial war, but someone forgot to tell the Greeks this, so we'll go ahead and let this count.

Especially this game. Rotations of 4 are hard.

Roster:
Ben (on deck)
Kuningas
TedJackson
Greebley (now playing)

 

[Greebley]

I also took 5 turns.

Preturn: Well things look pretty nasty. How the heck am I supposed to handle 8 Modern Armor on a mountain?
We also have 3 stacks. 1 for the airport and 1 for the town and one that looks like was going after the next city.

I decide to consolidate our forces into forces on the airport and the squared between the other two. To do this I have to abandon the town. I bombard any nearby Modern Armor.

IBT: We keep our airport because it is just outside greek influence. This is one reason I did this. The town would have been taken and we would lose the airport. The airport square is attacked but holds. The other square is also attacked. We hold there too.
We lose the two trade Lux, and a city riots. I cycle ahead.

1680 AD: Re-establish Lux deal. Throw in 240 gold and WM on my side plus ivory for his 2 luxes.
WW also increased as I have to raise our Lux rate to 10%

I bomb the MA and move my units onto the hill for the defense.

IBT: Even 1 hp MA are willing to attack our infantry. We lose a few but get most of them (They started with at most 2 hp - one killed 2 infantry before dying).

1685 AD: Found Ina on the Hill. Use a worker to rush walls for 32 gold. Sink a stack of Greek ships.

IBT See some Boats come by.

1690 AD: Bring over more units. Attempt to steal carefully. Our agent escapes, but fails. Use or only regular unit to help hurry a library. Bombard some Modern Armor.

IBT: Ani now has a Libarary.

1695 AD: Sink a bunch of Greek ships. Bombard Iconium. It is now size 5 with 3 injured Mechs

IBT: Destroyer sinks one of ours.

1700 AD: Bombard iconium again and get the units to 1 hp. Attack Iconium and take it with a few losses.

Notes:
Ben, the workers are on clear pollution detail. (Shift-D). If you don't like that then wake them up when they finish clearing (or now for that matter). I decided against just waking them all up at the end of my turn.

We need tanks. Not getting the steal hurt us. Some people seem to have great succes stealing tech. I seem to constistantly do very poorly. I really don't know why. Is it because of their government? Should one always go for safely? (I AM using the spy and not the normal diplo, so its not that one). I think I could have simply bought tanks on my first turn. I am regretting not doing so, though it would have tied up our money for a long time. Even at 1 hp, mech are going to cream our infantry I think.

I am making a road to the silks, but we need a settler or we will lose them on expansion. I didn't switch a city to settler yet.

We are building a new transport. We had 4 on my first turn, but since they had no movement they were all destroyed when I abandoned the town.

We are going to have serious problems winning this. Mayans will start to crumble long before we can do real damage to the Greeks with our current tech. Its worth playing it out, however. If we actually get lucky on some steals and get tanks and mechs or TOW, things could turn around. Maybe. Greeks will probably go over 100000 culture in about 10 turns.

The Save

 

[JustBen]

I got it.

I'll see what I can do about the Tank thing. What we really need is an air force to clean out the mechs so our attack score doesn't matter. Mobility is nice, though.

Hey, if we only have 3 more rotations till we lose, that's all the more reason to finish it out.

 

[Greebley]

Note that we don't lose. Greece reaches 100K but Mayans are over 50K.

What it does mean is that we are dependent on Mayan survival (and growth as Greece grows) to keep alive.

One thing just occurred to me now:
We could get an ROP with the Mayans and then have an artillery/infantry force in mayan lands. One thing I noticed was that the Mayans go first. This if we bombard the Modern Armor to low hp, then Mayan tanks can do the actual kill.

The reason we need Tanks is that infantry are not able to handle injured Mechs very well. One mech with 1 hp took 3 infantry to kill (I had to bombard it back to 1 hp when it promoted). I don't know if that is typical, but for a town on a hill, the mechs defense would be something like 31-32. I think that means on average we will get one loss for each Mech. Given that Greece has 130 odd, and our attack force is not more than 15 Infantry...
Getting the Tanks attack of 16 will make all the difference. A tank will only lose 2 hp on average, and so survive and heal.

That is why I say if we can get tanks we have a chance. We defend Maya and bombard mechs to 1 hp (and cities to size 6 or less?) then use tanks. Then all we have to worry about is the spaceships of both Maya and Greece. It is still tough as the Greeks are getting more than twice the culture than the Mayans currently. We need to slow down their culture growth which means taking out core cities.

In other words, we are not just playing out turns until we lose, but going for an unlikely but glorious win if we can pull it off

One bright note. Neither civ has built a space ship part.

 

[JustBen]

And what I'm saying is that if we just use a massive air fleet, our Infantry only have to worry about 0-hp MI! If it worked for Scouting Sid, surely we can get away with it. Or is the BAF too wrapped up over the channel to give us any help on the mainland?

I'll start hacking and slashing our way to Athens anyway. Better safe than sorry -- and it doesn't look like we're going to be able to use nukes to facilitate this occupation.

 

[Greebley]

Didn't you turn off lethal bombardment? I will have to check the first post, but I could have sworn you did due to it being so powerful.

If I am wrong then yes, that is the way to go. I will go check...


[Edit: Ok, I don't see it in the list. I must be getting games confused. I thought I even tried it but probably just missed several times. I am now confused on which game that was, but ya. we have a good number of bombers already (they are useful even non-lethal) and building more. So go ahead and use them to take cities.

Tanks are then nice, but maybe not necessary.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Greebley]

Ben? You still there? Don't lose heart, we are going to win this in spite of everything :rocket: :fish:

I am feeling optimistic today.

 

[Kuningas]

Should I take the save?

 

[JustBen]

I'm so sorry guys; it's not happening. Come back to me on the next round.

 

[TedJackson]

I'll be out of touch for the rest of this week and possibly into the middle of next week. Please autoskip me unless I post otherwise.


Ted

 

[Greebley]

Sounds like you are up Kuningas. See what damage you can do to the Greeks.