Assuming you can get Jesuit education which on Deity is a crap shoot at best, do you think you can get a decent SV turn time? I'm working on it and I think if you have the space to drop 5-6 cities Piety/Rationalism/Order might be competitive with a standard Tradition/Rationalism/Order SV. What do you guys think?
Jesuit Education SV
- Thread starter Resipsa
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FeiLing
Deity
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You won't get JE on Deity^^. JE is really nice and all, but note that you can get your stuff up in the very same time if you got enough gold which you actually might have on deity since you wanna max your trade routes asap for science (and yeah, gold). And also: If you got JE, you'll have 2 less GS at the end... that's quite a trade off too.
Amarr Emperor
Chieftain
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IMO not worth the faith cost. You're better off getting to the glory of god and buying great sci. But I could be wrong, haven't played around with reformation beliefs much yet
Deau
Emperor
It's not that it isn't worth the faith cost. It is that it isn't worth giving up tradition.
Your best shot is a DF cap picking capital centric religion and having a religious zealot as neighbor that kindly gives you JE (had that in some Pachacuti game where cap was getting RC+DI and I bought pagodas/mosques/JE buildings in my other 4 cities.
The growth loss alone will cost your net science not to be better as piety beeline than as a regular trad where you hard build a few and rush-buy a few.
Your best shot is a DF cap picking capital centric religion and having a religious zealot as neighbor that kindly gives you JE (had that in some Pachacuti game where cap was getting RC+DI and I bought pagodas/mosques/JE buildings in my other 4 cities.
The growth loss alone will cost your net science not to be better as piety beeline than as a regular trad where you hard build a few and rush-buy a few.
Deau
Emperor
For what its worth, I had also replayed a full piety super easy Shoshone map and even with 7 cities (3 other civs' cap + my starting 4 aka all of them were fairly good cities despite no trad), I couldn't beat my 4 city trad turn-to-victory. Part of the difficulty comes from a much, much slower early game as piety. Other from just all of my planted cities lagging 3-4 pop behind.
Amarr Emperor
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In case anyone's wondering why I haven't messed with reformations that much, what you said is exactly the reason. Not worth giving up tradition for
BlackWizard
King
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Jesut Education is good only when yuor neighbor has it as reformation belief. It's really good because you can use your gold to purchase factories and faith to purchase public schools
I'm not sure how all reformation beliefs work because you can faith purchase science buildings if somebody else has jesut education reformation belief but you cant purchase great persons in industrial era if somebody else has that reformation belief and spreads his/hers religion to you.
I'm not sure how all reformation beliefs work because you can faith purchase science buildings if somebody else has jesut education reformation belief but you cant purchase great persons in industrial era if somebody else has that reformation belief and spreads his/hers religion to you.
Are you sure? I thought reformation belief is for founder only.
BlackWizard
King
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Yes. Just playing as Rome and Korea has jesuit education and I can purchase public schools/research labs with faith. I'm not sure if it's bug or intentional because that other reformation belief that allows purchasing all type of great people doesnt seem to work. I also think that sacred site reformation belief(+2 tourism from faith purchased building) works too if you are not founder.
BlackWizard
King
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Yes. Just playing as Rome and Korea has jesuit education and I can purchase public schools/research labs with faith. I'm not sure if it's bug or intentional because that other reformation belief that allows purchasing all type of great people doesnt seem to work. I also remember(not sure) that sacred site reformation belief(+2 tourism from faith purchased building) works too if you are not founder.
You have to back into Jesuit Education, meaning that you hope the first two beliefs to go are Sacred sites and glory to the gods that's why I prefaced the question with assuming you get JE.
I don't think a faith pantheon is preferable, I think you're better off with a food pantheon to keep up with traditions growth bonuses. You'll make up your faith yield on higher faith generation from shrines and temples.
Also once you reach education I think all of your trade routes need to be internal. You don't need the gold as much and temples work as an early market to support unit and building maintenance
I don't think a faith pantheon is preferable, I think you're better off with a food pantheon to keep up with traditions growth bonuses. You'll make up your faith yield on higher faith generation from shrines and temples.
Also once you reach education I think all of your trade routes need to be internal. You don't need the gold as much and temples work as an early market to support unit and building maintenance
budweiser
King of the Beers
I've messed around with it before and never got anywhere.
OCC to Philo Oracle>NC for extra picks, then down to engineering to buy an aqueduct and up to Edu might do the trick.
You have to get 4 picks in Piety (obviously) which people don't really know how to do or at least no one talks about it.
I think a lot of civs might pull this off.
Poland, Venice etc.
You have to realize that faith generated a lot of science in the real world, but this is counterintuitive to the low information player. Never underestimate the value of a Catholic education.
OCC to Philo Oracle>NC for extra picks, then down to engineering to buy an aqueduct and up to Edu might do the trick.
You have to get 4 picks in Piety (obviously) which people don't really know how to do or at least no one talks about it.
I think a lot of civs might pull this off.
Poland, Venice etc.
You have to realize that faith generated a lot of science in the real world, but this is counterintuitive to the low information player. Never underestimate the value of a Catholic education.
budweiser
King of the Beers
And then there is Spain. I bet you could set something up with them in 3 or 4 map rolls on continents.
Kintara
Warlord
It's 25% now.
Amarr Emperor
Chieftain
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doesn't stack multi, so it's less than it seems when you get stock markets. (12.5% in cap with commerce opener)
Well the time gap between temples and stock markets is petty large although I didn't know this
Kintara
Warlord
Does anything stack multi? I can't think of anything.
