JFD's Civilizations - Japan (Tojo) for Vox Populi (v 9)

[HungryForFood]

JFD's Civilizations - Japan (Tojo) for Vox Populi
Does not need the original mod
(steam workshop)
(link to original mod)
​

Click on the overview button on the top left for information.

Spoiler UA details :

Ways to trigger the science instant yield: settling, culture bombing (ie citadel), natural border expansion, buying tiles, conquest.

Spoiler UU details :

Removed ability to carry fighters from Yamato. I couldn't prevent bomber units from using it.

Unique promotion now gives +1 range and +25% ranged combat strength, as opposed to JFD's +50% combat strength against cities.

+20 Combat Strength, +5 Ranged Combat Strength and given Armor Plating I, to match VP's UUs power levels, as well as to compensate loss of fighter slot.

Hopefully the above changes are enough to make the Yamato extremely strong, as it comes so late in the tech tree.

Removed Zero, which is used as a policy unlock in VP, and also to keep to the convention of having at least one UB or UI (a unique component that is present for the rest of the game after it unlocks).

Spoiler UB details :

Same as the 2nd UB from the Meiji mod.

Spoiler More UC details :

Kagero (UU) (replaces Destroyer)

• Does not require Strategic Resources.
• Type 93 Torpedoes (+50% Combat Strength when attacking units).

Governor's Office (UB) (replaces Courthouse)

• Produces 1 Iron, 1 Coal, and 1 Oil.
• All owned Factories gain +1 Production.
• Internal Trade Routes from this City generate +9 Food or +6 Production.
• Can be constructed in Puppeted Cities.

Spoiler Compatibility and other details :

In general, I tried to keep to the original intended theme of science, conquest, and naval, while matching the power levels to those seen in VP.

Compatible with Enginseer's works on Community Events, Events & Decisions for CBP, and the More Religious Buildings aspect of the CBP mod compatibility pack.

Civ events are almost the same as Oda Nobunaga's Japan. The only difference is that the Pagoda event is changed to Jinjas if you have More Religious Buildings.

For the civ decisions, "Adopt the Kantai Kessen" now always gives +1 movement and sight. JFD's version gave +1 range and sight when garrisoned, but since ranged naval can't shoot out of cities in VP, this is not useful.

"Modernise the Japanese Navy" is replaced with "Modernise the Imperial Air Services", which grants two sources of Oil and +25% Combat Strength for Fighter units. I changed this as a sort of compensation to the loss of the Zero as a UU.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yay! It's always nice to have more good civ options for VP. We usually host our custom civs in the showcase thread, for ease of tracking.

The UA looks very interesting. That could potentially be a lot of science from the beginning. Have there been any issues with snowballing with that?

Is the Yamato a Battleship replacement? That's very late for a UU, perhaps too late to make a difference. It would mean that Tojo would be without a UU for almost the whole game.

 

[notque]

Played him twice, very nice. I've made a bunch of JFD's civs for VP but never released them, this gives me the push to actually release them.

Any tips for the naming, did you just add for VP and generate a new mod id, or anything else special?

 

[notque]

So I started converting JFD's Roosevelt which has the same issue as Tojo, with the B17 already being used like the zero.

So for elegance I decided to take the same decision and use the Iowa Battleship (to mirror the Yamato).

They were very similar, except the Iowa was faster. I am thinking that making it cost more Iron, take longer to build and having it be far stronger makes sense as these were both super battleships.

Do you have any impressions on this idea? Both carried fighters but that doesn't work out. Both were massive weapons that should get their due as these elite platforms, especially being so late into the game.

Any thoughts here on how the Iowa should be setup?

EDIT -

After play testing, it's hard to make them over powered. Everything in late game seems poorly balanced, and to get these UU to be as effective as their younger counterparts they need so many updates.

+1 Range, +1 attack, stronger, Better defense, Better air Defense. And it's still not really as satisfying as earlier UUs. It really needs to be because you wait all game looking forward to it, you don't want it to be a dud once you get it.

The UA also needs to be extra powerful with the intention of moving you through the tech tree.

I think that needs to be the general template for late game civs.

 

[HungryForFood]

Yay! It's always nice to have more good civ options for VP. We usually host our custom civs in the showcase thread, for ease of tracking.

I will, kinda forgot to do it.

The UA looks very interesting. That could potentially be a lot of science from the beginning. Have there been any issues with snowballing with that?

Ran a few AI games, seemed to do just about average for warmonger civs. Fun fact, an old version of the UA was +1 production and science on sea tiles, without the building bonuses. The AI snowballed insanely with that.

Is the Yamato a Battleship replacement? That's very late for a UU, perhaps too late to make a difference. It would mean that Tojo would be without a UU for almost the whole game.

Yes that is correct, which is why I tried to give him a strong UA. Dojos are quite strong, and available quite early too.

Also, I've been making a mod called "Unique Unit Line", which lets all units which upgrade into or from UUs to get their unique promotions. Might be something interesting for the future?

Played him twice, very nice. I've made a bunch of JFD's civs for VP but never released them, this gives me the push to actually release them.

Any tips for the naming, did you just add for VP and generate a new mod id, or anything else special?

I made a completely new mod, with different mod IDs. I copied over pretty much everything though. I think a new mod ID is better, otherwise Civ might update the mod with the Steam Workshop version.

So I started converting JFD's Roosevelt which has the same issue as Tojo, with the B17 already being used like the zero.

So for elegance I decided to take the same decision and use the Iowa Battleship (to mirror the Yamato).

They were very similar, except the Iowa was faster. I am thinking that making it cost more Iron, take longer to build and having it be far stronger makes sense as these were both super battleships.

Do you have any impressions on this idea? Both carried fighters but that doesn't work out. Both were massive weapons that should get their due as these elite platforms, especially being so late into the game.

Any thoughts here on how the Iowa should be setup?

EDIT -

After play testing, it's hard to make them over powered. Everything in late game seems poorly balanced, and to get these UU to be as effective as their younger counterparts they need so many updates.

+1 Range, +1 attack, stronger, Better defense, Better air Defense. And it's still not really as satisfying as earlier UUs. It really needs to be because you wait all game looking forward to it, you don't want it to be a dud once you get it.

The UA also needs to be extra powerful with the intention of moving you through the tech tree.

I think that needs to be the general template for late game civs.

Actually, Roosevelt is one of the civs I'm thinking of making a VP version. My idea is to use the Mustang as the UU. Gets additional range, combat strength, etc. I'm not sure if Iowa is a fitting UU for the civ, because I don't feel that navy was not the US's best known trait for that era.

If you want to use the Iowa though, looking at Wikipedia, a few ideas I just had:
- Ability to carry missiles?
- Combat strength increases in Information era? (both referencing how it remained in used until relatively recently)
- Starts with Targetting I and Targetting II? (most accurate guns of the era)

 

[notque]

Actually, Roosevelt is one of the civs I'm thinking of making a VP version. My idea is to use the Mustang as the UU. Gets additional range, combat strength, etc. I'm not sure if Iowa is a fitting UU for the civ, because I don't feel that navy was not the US's best known trait for that era.

Roosevelt actually stayed on the Iowa, which is part of the reasoning. If it wasn't the Iowa, I'd have gone Sherman IV, and then another aircraft. Something for 3rd and 4th unique component I guess.

 

[vyyt]

Both carried fighters but that doesn't work out.

Wow, I will surely try these new civs when I have a chance. Thank you for making them compatible with VP!

It seems you already removed the fighters, but just for your info, both Yamato and Iowa carried just a couple of recon float planes. No proper fighters. A few Japanese battleships were converted into hybrid aircraft carriers by addition of a short flight deck in the later stage of war where the 2 aft gun turrets used to be, but they were only used as aircraft transport, never as aircraft carriers in battle as far as I know. The decks were too short for landings anyway. Google images of Hyuga - the ship looks quite grotesque.

 

[HungryForFood]

It seems you already removed the fighters, but just for your info, both Yamato and Iowa carried just a couple of recon float planes. No proper fighters.

Yes, but it is interesting gameplay wise, so I was willing to overlook this. Unfortunately I couldn't think of a way to make it work.

 

[HungryForFood]

I've updated Tojo for 4UC, as well as decreased the UA yields (I created this before the great yield deflation). However, I'm feeling unsatisfied with the UA. Both the science from naval unit kills and science from sea tiles are great early bonuses up to Medieval, but falls off late game, leaving the UA with just the attack bonus late game. Perhaps one of those two should be replaced.

Here's a few ideas I have, maybe there's something better for the UA:

1. Instant yield of science and production in every coastal city per kill (land and navy).
2. +1 science and production in every coastal city, scaling with era.
3. Instant yield of science per sea tile gained, along with claim adjacent sea tile when cities gain a sea tile (similar to Huns). This is JFD's version of the UA, except that the science will be a constant value with era scaling, rather than 1 turn of science per tile.
4. Naval units cost less production (hence cost less to upgrade as well).
5. Instant yield of science when a naval unit is built, and / or +1 science in the capital per naval unit owned, scaling with era.

Or maybe you think the current one is better. Would love to hear some thoughts.

 

[Asterix Rage]

I tend to think that the best UA overall is the one that "AI can deal with". In other words, the simplest is the best.
So, the current one, #2 and #3 look fine
I juste don't like the "Kills by Naval Units yield Science" part.

 

[HungryForFood]

All of them should be reasonably easy for the AI though. At the very least teaching them will not be too difficult, as using any of those UAs is relatively simple.

About #3, the reason I initially changed JFD's UA is that it felt like a coastal only mix of Russia's and Assyria's UAs. Does it seem like that to you, and do you think it's a problem?

 

[Asterix Rage]

do you think it's a problem?

I don't

Now, at this point, only tests can help what to decide.
Often, I'm very surprised about the big gap between what to think about a UA/UU/UB and what it really does in a game.

 

[HungryForFood]

Putting my draft UA here so I remember.

+30 Science, scaling with Era, when acquiring a Lake, Coast, or Ocean tile (bonus doubled if acquired from another civilization). +3 Science and Production from Coastal Buildings. Naval Units have +20% Combat Strength when attacking.

 

[pineappledan]

What is the name of the 20% attack bonus promotion?

 

[HungryForFood]

Same as the UA at the moment, Empire of the Pacific.

 

[pineappledan]

Same as the UA at the moment, Empire of the Pacific.

Cool. I wanted to make sure it wasn't Kantai Kessen, which is the name of the Yamato's unique promotion in the 4UC modmod. Otherwise I would try to find another name.

Thanks!

 

[HungryForFood]

Kantai Kessen is the name of a decision though. Probably not a big deal.

 

[HungryForFood]

HungryForFood updated JFD's The Empire of Japan (Tojo) for VP with a new update entry:

v 8 (changes from JFD's release)

UA: Empire of the Pacific
- Science from acquiring sea tiles now science from acquiring lake, coast, and ocean tiles. Lakes are included due to how they are coded in civ 5.
- Science is now a constant 30, scaling with era. Increases to 45 when conquering or citadeling another player. The Science from JFD's version is 1 tile = 1 turn of Science, increasing to 2 turns when conquering.
- Removed +50% naval unit production in conquered city.
- Added +2 Science and Production on Coastal Buildings...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[HungryForFood]

Whoever downloaded this, I just posted a small fix for the Yamato and Kagero using the wrong default unit AI. It is just a small fix though, and shouldn't matter if you don't have a Tojo AI.

 

[CppMaster]

In my current Emperor game as classic Japan (Oda) with 4UC mod, Tojo is doing very well (I can't say he is OP, because it's my only game with him; I'll test him more). When I started war with him in Industrial Era, he was the only leader with higher score than me, having 10 techs more than me and many built wonders. He went Rationalism & Freedom while I went Imperialism and Autocracy. That way when I've entered Information Era, he was 18 techs ahead of me, 150% of my production and twice the military score, so I was expecting him to crush me. However, by some reason he failed to do so. I have won navy battles which is not that odd (we both had Yamatos), but he also had like 10 atomic bombs which he never used. He proposed Nuclear Non-Proliferation and make it active, but it doesn't prevent him from using nukes. He just let me capture his 5 cities including capital. Also, he don't build any high-end units like X-coms, stealth bombers, jet fighters or deadly robots, despite the fact that he has almost all techs (maybe 2 left) and was losing the war badly.
Why didn't he use nukes or high-end units to secure his victory? In my previous game, when I've attack Russia, she nuked my army in just few turns, so AI knows how to use it.