Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[Sid]

Ditto to all the positive comments above. Stardock have been incredibly honest about the early failure of Elemental and Frogboy has posted his plan to rectify matters. I admire the way he is going about getting good people to implement his vision.

In my opinion, CiVs blandness has a lot to do with the 2K/Steam decisions and very little to do with the basic design.

 

[GoodGame]

So that's two ostensibly good designers who for whatever reason have left games in a state of neglected ruin. Good luck with that, Stardock.

Kael was unpaid for his work. Sounds like you think we should all be volunteering to mod games unpaid for years.

EDIT: Er.. what I mean to say is that FFH2 was excellent in its time.

 

[Kiwi_Mark_LFC]

I think you can assign a lot more of the blame to 2K Games then you can to Jon Shafer.
The 2K suits and their investors wanted a streamlined game for the mass market. I'm sure that wasn't Jon Shafer's vision for the game.

Jon Shafer will thrive at Stardock. Totally different situation from Firaxis.

Thats utter rubbish...Shafer is the one who wanter One Unit per Tile...he is the one who wanted to combine a tactical game like Panzer General with a grand strategic game that is Civ...he is the one who used Hex tiles (because thats what a game from the 1990's had - i.e. Panzer General)...he is responsible for the game - he was the LEAD designer...he is the one to blame!

 

[TheDS]

Thats utter rubbish...Shafer is the one who wanter One Unit per Tile...he is the one who wanted to combine a tactical game like Panzer General with a grand strategic game that is Civ...he is the one who used Hex tiles (because thats what a game from the 1990's had - i.e. Panzer General)...he is responsible for the game - he was the LEAD designer...he is the one to blame!

You're right, those are some pretty great ideas for helping the Civ series catch up to the 90's. Looks to me like a winning combination. How is it they got implemented so poorly, then?

Just because you're the "lead designer" doesn't mean you've got 100% total power. Shafer wasn't the one who lied to us about what Civ5 was going to be.

 

[civvver]

I guess this is what happens when you make an intern with no prior work experience your lead designer. Seriously? Wikipedia says this guy went to colorado state for 3 years studying computer science, did a ton of modding on civ3, interned and helped design civ4 bts and now at like the age of 26ish he gets handed the keys to the civ franchise? You've got to be joking. There were no other developers with experience available? I'm all for the youngins making their own startups, designing their own games, but it seems a little weird that he was in such a position on the civ5 team.

 

[aeligos]

Firaxis screwed up Civ V.

Shafer quit Firaxis...when Stardock came to rescue him.

Shafer, unlike Sid, will not be another corporate drone.

-.-

 

[heihojin]

"Hiring coup?" What are you people smoking? I guess it's not enough that Jon Shafer trashed the greatest turn-based strategy franchise of all time with the train wreck that was Civ 5. Nope, he's had to drag potential successors to the Civ franchise into mediocrity with it.

Well, that's unfortunate. I guess I won't be purchasing any turn-based strategy games for the next ten years at least, at least not from Stardock.

 

[aeligos]

"Hiring coup?" What are you people smoking? I guess it's not enough that Jon Shafer trashed the greatest turn-based strategy franchise of all time with the train wreck that was Civ 5. Nope, he's had to drag potential successors to the Civ franchise into mediocrity with it.

Well, that's unfortunate. I guess I won't be purchasing any turn-based strategy games for the next ten years at least, at least not from Stardock.

Firaxis wanted Civ V to be like Civ I.

Shafer was simply doing the job he was given.

It was Firaxis, not Shafer, that trashed Civ.

-.-

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Say what? CIV 1 was/is a game of sheer brilliance, and is the reason we are all here today.

 

[aeligos]

Say what? CIV 1 was/is a game of sheer brilliance, and is the reason we are all here today.

Firaxis felt is was time to bring in new blood; to secure another generation of loyalists since the current is well on it's way out.

Can't make it too complicated for the younglings, ya know?

That is why with Civ V we see nothing 'new' but only a reversal to things thence tried...only with nicer graphics.

-.-

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Your profile only lists Civ 4 and 5 in your collection, if you haven't played it don't knock it.

 

[yturk39]

GalCivII is a game with enormous potential that was poorly implemented and just plain not fun. John Shafer should fit in well.

I'll admit I play the game from time to time, but whenever I (inevitably) quit my games out of sheer boredom and the pop-up window asks me if I'm serious, and wouldn't rather play one more turn I always laugh out loud before decisively exiting the game.

Soren Johnson working on GalCivIII...now THAT just might get me interested...

 

[GIO888]

All I can say is the best of luck to any poor Bar Steward who loves this Starduckpond game as it is at the moment.

Expect Panzer General only it won't blooming well work.

toodle oo.

 

[sbtop]

All I can say is the best of luck to any poor Bar Steward who loves this Starduckpond game as it is at the moment.

Expect Panzer General only it won't blooming well work.

toodle oo.

Had to **lol** at this.

But fwtw, I quite liked Panzer General, in fact I'd say that it was as good for its time as Civ 1 was.

 

[Taquitos]

Only a company like Stardock could hire someone like Jon Shafer after what he did to Civilization.

Look, for those of you that are fanboys of this kid:

There was one thing, ONE THING that changed from Civilization 4-BTS and Civilization 5, and that was the lead developer, Jon shafer. 2k did not change, Firaxis DID NOT change, nor nothing else, one piece was moved in the puzzle.

So why was Civ4-BTS such a succes and considered to be one of the best turn-based strategy games of all time? How do you go from that to having a complete failure of a game that dissapointed the entirity of its fan base?? What was the change that caused that?? Was it 2k?? no I dont think so, since they made Civ4-BTS, was it Firaxis?? no because guess what? they were there too, so who could possibly be??

That's right!, the 24 year old kid that graduated from a below mediocre university with a history degree. Not only a History major (might as well he should've choosen PE as major) but also from a university that has less acreditation than one of those getto online universities that advertise in national channels. How in earth did this kid got a job is beyond me, how he got a lead designing job is just one of those situations that makes you wonder about the IQ of people with managing jobs.

Anyways, there is no doubt for anyone that is smart enough, that Jon Shaffer was the responsable for destroying a 20 year old franchise with only ONE release, and 3 months. And there is no doubt that he will do the same to Stardock games, but guess what? there is not much to ruin there so probably the damage won't be as bad as the one he did to Civilization, so probably some other mediocre gaming company will hire him yet again after he is done with Stardock.

 

[sbtop]

Only a company like Stardock could hire someone like Jon Shafer after what he did to Civilization.

Look, for those of you that are fanboys of this kid:

There was one thing, ONE THING that changed from Civilization 4-BTS and Civilization 5, and that was the lead developer, Jon shafer. 2k did not change, Firaxis DID NOT change, nor nothing else, one piece was moved in the puzzle.

So why was Civ4-BTS such a succes and considered to be one of the best turn-based strategy games of all time? How do you go from that to having a complete failure of a game that dissapointed the entirity of its fan base?? What was the change that caused that?? Was it 2k?? no I dont think so, since they made Civ4-BTS, was it Firaxis?? no because guess what? they were there too, so who could possibly be??

That's right!, the 24 year old kid that graduated from a below mediocre university with a history degree. Not only a History major (might as well he should've choosen PE as major) but also from a university that has less acreditation than one of those getto online universities that advertise in national channels. How in earth did this kid got a job is beyond me, how he got a lead designing job is just one of those situations that makes you wonder about the IQ of people with managing jobs.

Anyways, there is no doubt for anyone that is smart enough, that Jon Shaffer was the responsable for destroying a 20 year old franchise with only ONE release, and 3 months. And there is no doubt that he will do the same to Stardock games, but guess what? there is not much to ruin there so probably the damage won't be as bad as the one he did to Civilization, so probably some other mediocre gaming company will hire him yet again after he is done with Stardock.

Main point highlighted.

Someone gave him a job, someone greenlighted his design, someone was happy enough to release the game.

So who was to blame for CiV? You can look at 3 possibilities:

1: The Suits chasing money, who thought that dumbing down the franchise to appeal to the masses was the way to go. The guys who presumably hired Shafer and put him in his position.

2: The guy who has his name is plastered all over the cover, the legendary Sid Meier. Personally I'd have thought that he'd have the integrity to make sure that he'd be happy with the game that bears his name and continues his franchise.

3: The Lead Designer, Shafer who would have been given a brief to follow. That may have been as concise as "make CiV make enough money for us to bathe in" but I'd imagine that it was quite a bit more detailed that that.

Personally I'd blame the people in the order listed. Hell, if I was paranoid I'd say that he was hired as a fall guy for Meier to ride in with CiVI and to bring us what we want. But I think that you have to look at the way that the gaming market is going. Complex games, the games that require some thought, are becoming extinct and are being replaced by crap that "appeals to the masses". Niche is no longer good enough for some companies. Blame Blizzard with WoW showing what can be done, blame Facebook and Farmville (and I think that the upcoming Civ Facebook game proves this) for achieving mass numbers, but accept, for now, that the chances of us getting an improved CIV are pretty remote because the old fans, the ones that bought Civ 1-4, just aren't numerous to make the Suits happy.

Does all this make me a Shafer fanboi? Not a chance considering how playing CiV twice made me start playing CIV again. But I'm a realist. Shafer isn't the anti-Christ, the guy who destroyed the franchise: there are a lot more people who helped with that. Not that it is destroyed of course, just derailed for now.

 

[aeligos]

Only a company like Stardock could hire someone like Jon Shafer after what he did to Civilization.

Look, for those of you that are fanboys of this kid:

There was one thing, ONE THING that changed from Civilization 4-BTS and Civilization 5, and that was the lead developer, Jon shafer. 2k did not change, Firaxis DID NOT change, nor nothing else, one piece was moved in the puzzle.

So why was Civ4-BTS such a succes and considered to be one of the best turn-based strategy games of all time? How do you go from that to having a complete failure of a game that dissapointed the entirity of its fan base?? What was the change that caused that?? Was it 2k?? no I dont think so, since they made Civ4-BTS, was it Firaxis?? no because guess what? they were there too, so who could possibly be??

That's right!, the 24 year old kid that graduated from a below mediocre university with a history degree. Not only a History major (might as well he should've choosen PE as major) but also from a university that has less acreditation than one of those getto online universities that advertise in national channels. How in earth did this kid got a job is beyond me, how he got a lead designing job is just one of those situations that makes you wonder about the IQ of people with managing jobs.

Anyways, there is no doubt for anyone that is smart enough, that Jon Shaffer was the responsable for destroying a 20 year old franchise with only ONE release, and 3 months. And there is no doubt that he will do the same to Stardock games, but guess what? there is not much to ruin there so probably the damage won't be as bad as the one he did to Civilization, so probably some other mediocre gaming company will hire him yet again after he is done with Stardock.

Thanks for the laugh taqo!!!

Now that "the kid" (ie Mr Shafer) is at Stardock, watch as his real talent shines WITHOUT the overbearing Suits whipping him into submission. Stardock don't play that way.

Sucks to be a Firaxis fanny these days, doesn't it? LOL... But no problem taquito..you'll eventually grow up and be wiser.

-.-

 

[Kiwi_Mark_LFC]

You're right, those are some pretty great ideas for helping the Civ series catch up to the 90's. Looks to me like a winning combination. How is it they got implemented so poorly, then?

Just because you're the "lead designer" doesn't mean you've got 100% total power. Shafer wasn't the one who lied to us about what Civ5 was going to be.

More Rubbish...1. Youre assuming that was the directive from 2K 2. He could easily have given both with some simple additional design - i.e. OPTIONS!

Also, a Lead Designer also should have had a decent Test Plan...clearly there wasnt one with Civ V!

He is also to blame for the lack of consistency in the all the dialog boxes, the stupid build queue interface...etc etc etc...I could go on but I dont have the time to list it all...its longer than War and Peace...

He is NOT a good Game Designer...and I doubt he ever will be!

 

[scratchthepitch]

I'm surprised that CivFan has left this thread up. It doesn't do their image any good with all the pouting, childish posts slandering a man that once worked at Firaxis. It gives the image of CivFan that it is populated and run by people who harbor a petty vendetta against someone just because they quit and went to work for a rival company.

If I was a new comer here and saw this thread, I would be appalled that a company site would be so vindictive and I would be inclined to seek out the products of the company the man now works at, instead.

But to each his own, I guess.

 

[squeebus]

I'm surprised that CivFan has left this thread up. It doesn't do their image any good with all the pouting, childish posts slandering a man that once worked at Firaxis. It gives the image of CivFan that it is populated and run by people who harbor a petty vendetta against someone just because they quit and went to work for a rival company.

If I was a new comer here and saw this thread, I would be appalled that a company site would be so vindictive and I would be inclined to seek out the products of the company the man now works at, instead.

But to each his own, I guess.

Wait.... what?