Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

[bonafide11]

Of course he's going to say positive things. If you're in a position where you've just recently left your job, you're not going to bad-mouth your previous employers, simply becasuse it'll come back and bite you in a lot of job interviews, e.g. "John we checked with your previous employers and they said while you're a talented developer, you have a bad attitude, argue with superiors a lot, and publicly disclose confidential company data. What skills do you think you have that will compensate for these big and obvious defects?" and he's going "Oh stercus, he's going on about the big F-U I gave 2K games on twitter and other media within a week of leaving them. What do I say?" This applies whether he left the job of his own volition, was told to jump or be pushed, was pushed with the semblance of jumping or straight out fired (although there is some chance of the F-U in that case as you don't depend on a job you're fired from for references).

Read my previous comment. There was no need for him to say anything. I didn't say he would bad mouth them, but he also didn't need to say anything. He doesn't tweet much at all.

 

[ezwip]

I don't use twitter often but I signed in just to view the comment. It wasn't much, but this is what it says, "Thanks for the well-wishes everyone. Had a lot of fun at Firaxis, and looking forward to enjoying their games as a fan again. " There is nobody commenting to him about it leading up to this unless I'm missing something.

 

[tom2050]

Some great examples of fans any developer should be proud to have!

Great Senethro.. let's love a failed lead developer; in hopes that he will throw more of his failed ideas at us that we can buy.

The developers (excludes Shafer finally) should be proud to have us as fans, because they obviously have been listening to these fans 'complaints and whining' (as some have been saying for a long time), and this is the outcome, which is a good outcome. Civilization continues to exist because of it's fans. We are to thank.

Please tell me Senethro, why would you want the developers to be proud of you?

 

[bonafide11]

I don't use twitter often but I signed in just to view the comment. It wasn't much, but this is what it says, "Thanks for the well-wishes everyone. Had a lot of fun at Firaxis, and looking forward to enjoying their games as a fan again. " There is nobody commenting to him about it leading up to this unless I'm missing something.

I posted that tweet a couple pages back. A few people tweeted him about it previously. I asked what happened and a couple other people wished him the best. (You can search for @_jon_shafer_ to see what people have tweeted him).

 

[AverageDude]

The thing that's really bumming me out is that now I definitely feel like I should rescind my Christmas request for 50 dollars to buy this thing off steam just because of the risk that the expansions and patches aren't going to come. Then again, I've only played the demo.

 

[zarakand]

This is luke-warm news. On the one hand, Shafer fixed warfare in civ. Warfare now has a tactical element beyond "which unit attacks first". On the other hand, Shafer seems to have broken diplomacy and AI.

I've had a pretty good time playing his game so far - so I'm sad to hear this news.

I agree with this sentiment. It took me a while to warm up to Civ V, and I hope Shafer does well with other jobs.

 

[Sneaks]

Chances they stop supporting Civ V: close to zero.
Chances this means they want to change the direction of the game: 50/50? No idea.

What we do know:
-Civ V has sold over 1 million copies in its first 3 months of release thus far. Over 50% have been direct downloads.
-A good portion of these sales are probably from the existing playerbase of Civ 4, just as a good portion of Civ 4's initial sales were from the Civ 3 player base.
-A small and vocal part of the playerbase has consistently criticized the many shortcomings of this iteration of the series. Many of these criticisms are based on the game's differences from its predecessor in the series.
-The game received excellent reviews from the vast majority of critics, with a metascore of 90. The common theme in these reviews is that the game is far easier to get into than past Civ games, has an easier learning curve, and is graphically beautiful. The common issues in the review is that the AI does not seem to properly understand the 1UPT system and that the graphics are an absolute drain on machines.
-There have been 3 post-release DLCs, 1 major patch, and a few minor patches since launch.

So what does it all mean? Until Firaxis/2k comes out and makes a comment about changing game direction and/or ending support, absolutely nothing other than the ability to speculate on the forum.

 

[pi-r8]

It's interesting to compare Civ5 with Master of Orion 3. Most people regard MOO3 as a totally failed sequel to a great series. Despite how bad the game is, it was still the number 1 selling game the week it was released. I couldn't find any info on its total sales, though.

Basically, in order for civ 5 to be considered a success, it should be selling significantly better than MOO3, because that was a completely terrible game that sold only because of its name.

 

[jpinard]

We won't be seeing civ VI for 5 years...

 

[ash88]

Option 1: Civ5 is a glorious success, fun, and the spiritual successor to all things Civ. Jon Shafer simply decided that on the eve of a great victory he would leave.

Option 2: Civ5 is a resounding failure, and even Firaxis knows it. Either by virtue of stress, disappointment, or through a little pressure from Firaxis Jon Shafer has decided that it is best if he leave.

Which seems more reasonable?

Exactly.

I will link faith-blind fanbois to this article going forward. The proof is in the pudding folks!

With all that in mind I do hope that a year of patches will fix it. I'm not buying another thing from Fraxis until they do.

Its such a shame.

 

[Geddy]

Ok if you don't like civ no more then why are you on a civ fan site? I don't get it?

I know this is hard to "get" but I didn't say im not playing it I said I wont PAY to play it.

Also I happen to enjoy civ 4 and I am celebrating the consequences of not looking after your customers.

Moderator Action: CFC has a zero tolerance policy on piracy, please don't imply that you have a pirated copy.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[bonafide11]

I don't think 2K/Firaxis let him go because they were displeased with Civ V. I think all of you who are celebrating this are mistaken and this could actually be bad news for Civilization as a series.

2K has been trying to reduce the budget of Firaxis. Remember they already let go of 20 Firaxis employees over the summer. They probably figured they could further reduce Firaxis's budget if they got a cheaper lead designer and let Jon Shafer go because they didn't want to continue to pay his salary. It's not good for us Civ fans if 2K continues to cut into Firaxis's budget.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[ash88]

-A small and vocal part of the playerbase has consistently criticized the many shortcomings of this iteration of the series. Many of these criticisms are based on the game's differences from its predecessor in the series.

Uhh. No.

1: How do you know that a "small" part has been the only part that has been criticizing Civ5? You only see what is on some public forums. I had a conversation yesterday with a stranger standing in line about how crappy Civ5 was. I told him he could post online about it and he said the wisest thing I have ever heard: "I don't care that much. It sucks, but it isn't worth my time." Genius.

2: You are saying that the criticisms are based on its predecessors. Although they exist lets look at some of the key criticisms:

a) The AI is stupid and easily beaten. Some people are counter arguing that the game should just be put on a higher difficulty... giving the computer a significant handicap. I suppose using that logic I should play golf against Tiger Woods and take a 100 point handicap... then I will kick his <censored>.

There is nothing fun about a strategy game where all of your opponents dont use any strategy. Instead they solo run units against you. Yippee!

b) Multiplayer... is... ummm... what do you call it... oh yeah.. Playable... meaning that it doesn't crash... yes... that is a complaint the focuses on the predecessors... yeah... that's it... because the predecessors to Civ5 had stable multiplayer... omg...

c) Balance.... yeah... there is another one... must be something that I just got use to in the predecessors.

I love some of the ideas Civ5 brought... like hexes, 1UPT, and other fundamental changes. What I can't stand is how these features don't work.

Anyways... interested in where this Shafer thing goes.... and why the hell don't they poach Kael from Stardock?

 

[Rohili]

Option 1: Civ5 is a glorious success, fun, and the spiritual successor to all things Civ. Jon Shafer simply decided that on the eve of a great victory he would leave.

Option 2: Civ5 is a resounding failure, and even Firaxis knows it. Either by virtue of stress, disappointment, or through a little pressure from Firaxis Jon Shafer has decided that it is best if he leave.

Which seems more reasonable?

Exactly.

I will link faith-blind fanbois to this article going forward. The proof is in the pudding folks!

That is what counts for proof? How do you explain that in past Civs, the lead designers have also left Firaxis after finishing the project? Were they all failures too?

Shafer leaving Firaxis could have all kinds of possible explanations. If you think Civ V is a failure, argue it out using evidence from the game or the sales, instead of resorting to such routine staff shakeups as "proof".

 

[Sneaks]

Option 1: Civ5 is a glorious success, fun, and the spiritual successor to all things Civ. Jon Shafer simply decided that on the eve of a great victory he would leave.

Option 2: Civ5 is a resounding failure, and even Firaxis knows it. Either by virtue of stress, disappointment, or through a little pressure from Firaxis Jon Shafer has decided that it is best if he leave.

Which seems more reasonable?

Exactly.

I will link faith-blind fanbois to this article going forward. The proof is in the pudding folks!

With all that in mind I do hope that a year of patches will fix it. I'm not buying another thing from Fraxis until they do.

Its such a shame.

I am sure the truth is nowhere near either of your Opinions. Generally speaking, the real truth is a shade of gray. Civ V is a game that has sold well, was reviewed well, but has some serious issues. Could he have been let go? Yep. Could he have left of his own volition? Yep. Would either answer be surprising in any way? No.

 

[jorbi]

I don't blame him, in a few days people are going to be opening their christmas presents and boy are they going to be disappointed to find Civ 5 under the tree. Yes, he's one of the people responsible, but if he really left of his own accord I gotta say I wouldnt want to be there for the fallout either.

After the initial excitement over the wargame-like combat and the bit more rational city borders, I quickly cooled on the game, and it wasnt even on my radar. Now, I found out I'm one of those lucky duckies getting this for Christmas (my brother said its the "perfect gift" for me) and I'm trying to figure out some way to ship it back to amazon without disappointing him.

Apart from the fact that the game appears to be bad and a step backward on many fronts, (I can look at the civiization bonuses and tell some of them are just awful, why do so many have to do with barbarians?) I just can't be bothered to start over again. For thematic reasons, I like to play Carthage and the Dutch, and even though it had the dutch, I never bought Beyond the sword because of the corporations and the dumb vatican.

 

[dlk]

If many people are as frustrated with this game as I am....All I can do is smile and say good riddance !!! This has always been my favorire series of games until this one. The design and beta testing for this one...should get a LOT of people FIRED. They should rename this game....Freeze V......It needs some smart people thawing it out...if that can be done.

 

[Fistalis]

Meh. Saw it coming. Especially when you compare all the design decisions to sid's keynotes speeches and realize that Civ Vs core design goes against most of what he says. When all games of a series is built on a particular design philosophy.. then one goes against the grain of the whole series its not going to do well. Thats not to say it wasn't a financial success. But how many people pre-ordered or bought it because it was Civ only to be disappointed? What does that do for the brand name? etc

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Let us all pray together. May the world peace and Civ6 come, o Lord. Amen

 

[ash88]

I am sure the truth is nowhere near either of your Opinions. Generally speaking, the real truth is a shade of gray. Civ V is a game that has sold well, was reviewed well, but has some serious issues. Could he have been let go? Yep. Could he have left of his own volition? Yep. Would either answer be surprising in any way? No.

It's good to tell children that the "truth is somewhere in the middle." It's an easy concept to grasp. However as adults we both know that sometimes the truth isn't in the middle - there is no shade of grey.

Something else we need to teach our children is that if it looks like crap, smells like crap, and tastes like crap, then it's crap no matter what they are trying to sell you. The truth isn't some shade of grey.

All things in moderation, including moderation.