OK, I'm trying my first game as Jotnar/Mother with patch n. Honestly, I have the same reaction as the first time I played the Scions: wow, what a hoot! I didn't try them before they made it into FF and actually this is my second game as my first was, well, a learning experience as I did very badly. I didn't get how the Jotnar worked at all. However, after reading through this thread for some very good tips and starting my second game, I am having great fun playing this new civ. One observation that might be a balance issue, maybe a bug: The AI barbs just don't know how to deal with the Wall of the Covenant. I love this Wonder and beelined it thinking this would force all the barbs on the other civs. It isn't working that way, though. I am finding that instead of attacking other civs, I have 6 or more packs of barbs just hanging around my borders protected by the wall. Yes, if I send a unit out, they rapidly respond. However, they are just patrolling outside the walls and not really what one might expect of raging savages. I think they don't know what to make of the wall. Anyway, I managed to get a small army of Hill Giants and Troll Hunters outside into the world and they are taking down civs one after another. If you get rolling with the Jotnar Juggernaut early there is no stopping them with AI Warriors, Scouts, Hunters, Axemen even though they have numbers. The Wall gives you the freedom to not worry so much about defenders at home and focus on your offensive game. My first game I couldn't get Citizens to save my life, but this game they are coming at a good pace. I really have no other complaints about this civ and kudos to the designer. I am hoping my next game to sit back and let it go so I can build some of the higher level Jotnar units. Oh, one question: does the Jotnar have a World Spell? Thanks again for putting these big guys in the game.