Jotnar: Balance Discussion Thread

[WarKirby]

There's also no easy way to reduce their gold cost without also decreasing their hammer cost.

Yes there is.

Remove the inbuilt "upgrade" ability into a settler, and instead create an "Upgrade to settler" spell which subtracts an amount of gold you specifiy.

I'm pretty sure the doviello do it. I'm vertain it's possible for spells to have a gold cost (Pelemoc stuff, etc) and I'm also certain it's possible for a spell to transform a unit (lichdom)

So what is missing? Seems like nothing.
although it's slightly messy, codewise, I don't see anything stopping you from setting the price of a settler upgrade independantly from all the others, using this kind of method. Am I wrong?

 

[Vehem]

So what is missing? Seems like nothing.
although it's slightly messy, codewise, I don't see anything stopping you from setting the price of a settler upgrade independantly from all the others, using this kind of method. Am I wrong?

Nope - that would work, albeit a little messy as you said. I'm still not sold that 300-ish gold is too much though. You still have the hammers option, or you have 10 turns without research (assuming you've made it to 30 commerce per turn, which is typically where I am when I start to spread with them). It's a different choice to normal, but not a bad one to make.

I also use the same tactic when raising an army for them - research a new tech, then hit 0% research for a while and upgrade everything. It might not work so well with the other AIs teching better, but it does limit the potency of such high strength units naturally - they're available, but expensive. You have to give something up to recruit them. It costs something.

Likewise with the comments about city-sprawl being too powerful with the Jotnar. Cheaper settlers just make that so much easier...

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On a side note, I'm currently looking at making the "Processes" (Research, Wealth, Culture) into 100% of the hammers as it is in BtS (FfH has it at 50% as in Civ4), which will certainly help the Jotnar to raise some cash for their armies and give them something useful to use the hammers for other than thralls...

 

[Valkrionn]

I hadn't thought about that yet actually, but I AM considering adding a lesser version available from the start... convert 10% of hammers into commerce, research, and culture.

 

[Vehem]

I hadn't thought about that yet actually, but I AM considering adding a lesser version available from the start... convert 10% of hammers into commerce, research, and culture.

And I hadn't thought of that one... It should be possible to have different Processes for the same commerce (2 that both produce research for instance) with different tech requirements, so that you can have Mysticism allow 50% hammer-research and Writing allow 100% hammer-research etc...

Would be tidier to alter the way the processes actually work though...

 

[xienwolf]

I thought he meant something which provided all 3 at once, but at a lower total efficiency. Sort of a "Go do your own thing" command to the citizens.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, that's what I meant. So a bit more than 3% of your hammers converted into each type. I remember the first version of the Legion with something like that.

 

[Mylon]

And I hadn't thought of that one... It should be possible to have different Processes for the same commerce (2 that both produce research for instance) with different tech requirements, so that you can have Mysticism allow 50% hammer-research and Writing allow 100% hammer-research etc...

Would be tidier to alter the way the processes actually work though...

I wouldn't mind helping with that. I hate the way processes worked in pre-BTS Civ4, and ended up designing a system so processes provided permanent bonuses. A kind of thing to do when there was nothing left to do. BTS 3.17 kinda ruined the method I had used to create those changes (since it seems to handle multiples of a building differently than before).

Basically, I made it so as you dumped hammers into a process, you got a +% bonus that permanently improved that particular city's output. This was in addition to 1/2 the rate of normal -> conversion.

 

[Perkin Warbeck]

I am saddened by the fact that my titans are not in fact immortal! I upgraded my hero to one and sent him (and three other 300+ year olf citizens) to attack an enemy city. He died, they all died infact and I got the message they had been reborn in my capital but there was nothing to be seen. I checked my nice big pile of citizens and found I could build four more titans again. This is weird as they clearly have the blood of the Phoenix promotion. What's going on?

 

[WarKirby]

that's a bug. It seems we broke immortality

 

[Perkin Warbeck]

lol!
I can't imagine how those titans feel now they've suddenly awoken to find they can't fling themslves off cliffs any longer!
Glad to know it's not me being odd! It's just nice to know they should be immortal still, although making an immortal unit from a 1st level citizen is nice rather than waiting for them to reach 6th.