Judicial Review- Term 5- Request 4

[Zarn]

Requested by Ravensfire on governor authority over other provinces.

"Please determine if this post is a valid, legal instruction under Section I of the CoL, Section I of the CoS and Section C.1.b of the CoL.

Although the idea is admirable, and I support it, I am strongly opposed to the Governor of one province creating instructions that bind Governors of other instructions. This is far outside the responsibilities of the Governor. The poll used to justify this should have been labeled an Informational poll, as the matter under consideration was not totally within the duties of the Governor. This is in direct contrast to the polls used by the MIA in the previous term for Wonders. Wonders are explicitly within the duties of the MIA, and thus instructions may be issued for them.

Citizen participation is good, and key, but this goes beyond that."

Code of Laws: Section I

I.  Legal Instructions
  1.  A legal instruction is any instruction, posted in the 
      turn chat instruction thread at least one hour prior 
      to the start of the turn chat, by a citizen empowered 
      to do so, within the limitations of the office the 
      citizen is representing.

Code of Standards: Section I

I.  Poll Procedures 
  1.  Forum Poll
    a.  The following criteria are required for a forum poll 
        to be binding: 
      1.  Approval levels must be achieved. 
        A.  A simple plurality is required. 
        B.  If "Abstain" ever holds plurality at the end of a 
            poll, the forum poll is not binding. 
    b.  The following criteria are required for a forum poll 
        to be valid: 
      1.  Discussion thread open for 24 hours, minimum. 
      2.  Poll type in the header and first post. 
      3.  Forum Poll end dates/times noted in the first post. 
        A.  End dates/times can be conditional. (Example: 
            poll ends at 1 hour prior to the beginning of the 
            next chat turn) 
      4.  Link to relevant discussion threads in the first
          post. 
      5.  Inclusion of an "Abstain" option. 
      6.  Link to the poll in the Poll Registry. 
      7.  All above criteria must be met within 4 hours of 
          creating poll, excepting minor typos and corrections.
    c.  The following criteria are preferred for all forum 
        polls: 
      1.  Proposed poll, up for 24 hours minimum. 
      2.  Forum poll posted with link from discussion thread. 
      3.  Forum poll duration minimum of 24 hours (48 hours 
          plus is preferred). 
        A.  If the forum poll runs into the weekend it is 
            advised that the duration be extended by 24 hours 
            for each weekend day. Forum participation is much 
            lower on the weekends. 
      4.  Link to the forum poll in the appropriate Department 
          thread. 
      5.  Vote options given explanations, if not immediately 
          apparent.
          Example:  Yes (I want to build the embassy.)  
                    No (I do not want to build the embassy.)
                    Abstain (I don't care if we build the 
                             embassy.)
  
  2.  Informational polls
    a.  Do not have restrictions and cannot be used to 
        justify policy, plans or actions. 
      1.  All polls posted by Leaders are considered Forum 
          Polls unless specifically noted to be informational 
          in the header and first post.
  
  3.  Refusal Polls
    a.  Any citizen may request a refusal poll to be posted 
        within 24 hours of any citizen being appointed to an 
        elected office.
    b.  The person who appointed the citizen to the office 
        must create a poll within 24 hours of the refusal
        request.
      1.  Failure to post the poll shall result in the 
          appoinment nullified
      2.  Poll shall only contain Yes, No and Abstain options.
      3.  Poll shall run for 48 hours.
      4.  Header and body of poll should state that this is 
          a refusal poll and the position in question.
      5.  Should there fail to be a majority of votes in
          support of the appointment, the appointment is 
          immediately nullified upon the poll closing.
    c.  If the appointment is nullified, the person making 
        the appointment must appoint a different citizent to 
        the office.

Code of Laws: Section C.1.b.

b.  A governor organizes the production of their province.
      1.  A governor organizes the build queues of the cities 
          in thier province
      1.  A governor organizes the tile use in their province. 
      2.  If a tile is unused, it may be used by a city in a 
          neighboring province. 
      3.  A governor organizes tile development in their 
          province. 
      4.  A governor may determine if population rushing is 
          to be used in a city within their province.

 

[tao]

You refer to this post and I would also like to add my my comment:

Ravensfire asks a very good question on which I would like to elaborate:

Was it legal to post the poll in question?
Was it legal to post the post in question in the turnchat instruction thread?
Was it legal for the President/DP to follow the instructions?
Where they contradicted instructions of a governor not present in the turnchat?
Where they contradicted instructions of a governor present in the turnchat but not complaining?
Where they affected cities for which the responsible governor failed to give instructions?

Note: I have adopted the habit of posting in dark blue when I post as governor. I did not do this for either the poll nor the post. Thus I spoke as a citizen. I was not as governor intruding in other governors' competencies.
Please look also at the turnchat log:
[16:30:54] <+tao> Question? What has priority: queues by the governors or by The People's poll decision?
[16:31:10] <!Chieftess> Probably people's poll decision.

 

[Zarn]

Link added. I cannot answer your questions, though. I can only observe and ask my own.

 

[Cyc]

Where they affected cities for which the responsible governor failed to give instructions?

Note: I have adopted the habit of posting in dark blue when I post as governor. I did not do this for either the poll nor the post. Thus I spoke as a citizen. I was not as governor intruding in other governors' competencies.
Please look also at the turnchat log:
[16:30:54] <+tao> Question? What has priority: queues by the governors or by The People's poll decision?
[16:31:10] <!Chieftess> Probably people's poll decision.

Oh! You had a decent arguement until you went and said the words, "Thus I spoke as a citizen." Silly tao. TCIT is only for people empowered to post instructions for game play. Citizens are not legally empowered to do this. Shot yerself in the foot on that one.

Rather than JR tao's action, a more logical approach to this useless endeavor would have been to CC the Governors that didn't respond to the will of the people on this issue (documented by a poll). But that really would have wasted the Court's time. The way I see it, tao tried to do not only a good thing, but the right thing. There was just no time to do it the right way. Nothing you could do about that, tao. But your post was still illegal.

 

[DaveShack]

Here are my opinions relating to the questions that tao asked.

Was it legal to post the poll in question?

It is clearly legal for any citizen to post a poll. What may be questionable is whether this poll followed the generally accepted practice of having a suitable period of discussion prior to the poll. Additionally, a poll by an official which is not meant to be related to that person's office is usually marked informational.

Was it legal to post the post in question in the turnchat instruction thread?

Not if posting as a citizen only, as only officials empowered to post for an office may post instructions. A post by a citizen in the TCIT calling attention to a poll crosses the line of posting something other than an instruction in a thread with a specific purpose. Posting as an official with instructions outside one's responsibilities would be a further, more serious break with the rules.

Was it legal for the President/DP to follow the instructions?

Where they contradicted instructions of a governor not present in the turnchat?
Where they contradicted instructions of a governor present in the turnchat but not complaining?

​

The presence of a governor (or any other elected official) in the turnchat is immaterial to the validity of TCIT instructions. The law is clear on this: the President / DP is responsible for following all legally posted instructions, whether such instruction are known to be the will of the people or not.

Where they affected cities for which the responsible governor failed to give instructions?
​

In cases where a governor has failed to give instructions, responsibility clearly falls to the DP, who is expected to ascertain the WOTP if available and carry on, and to use his/her best judgement if the WOTP is not known on the issue.

What should happen
A poll was performed, which should have been iformational in nature, but still represented the will of the people. The person posting that poll should have informed the governors using the respective government threads, and leave it up to the governors to take action. Any governor who failed to take this information about WOTP into account when formulating instructions would be subject to a CC. Conflicting documented WOTP which disagrees with the subject poll might be usable as a 'get out of jail free".