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June/July Patch Notes

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by 2K Greg, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. aleph0

    aleph0 Chieftain

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    So you basically agree with me that it is no big deal? It could make the game a bit more difficult at higher level, but considering how many people have been complaining about the game being too easy, this is good. I just wonder at this point if the risk is that it makes lower levels too easy. Although I don't really believe so.
     
  2. Putmalk

    Putmalk Deity

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    Yet the modifiers make sense (why should the AI not hate you forever for nuking them and capturing their capital)? And why should the AI love you 400 turns after a 30 turn GPT deal expired back in the Classical Era? I believe these changes make a ton of sense.
     
  3. aleph0

    aleph0 Chieftain

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    Completely agree. Also: if you take an AI capital, you are most likely doing a permanent damage. While commerce benefits are obviously temporary and much easier to achieve. Keep long lasting good commercial relations, and you obtain a permanent positive modifier.
     
  4. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    Yeah, I agree. I see no gameplay benefit in only positive modifiers degrading. There is already a desperate lack of positive modifiers, this improves the situation but there is no reason to make only these ones degrade. I do agree with new negative modifiers (not in terms of needing more, but they are appropriate and lacking without them), but they should degrade if the positive ones do. Or, even better, neither should degrade.

    Hmm, didn't notice this. Probably the worst tree hasn't even been improved? Huh?

    I love the improvements to tanks, the Ottomans, Germany, and America, but why no improvement for England? It is probably the weakest one now, or maybe still just above the ottomans. Rather annoying considering that, out of the four mentioned civs, England (or rather Britain) has had the largest impact throughout history as a whole. As for wonders, I support some of the changes, but oppose most. The hanging gardens are now OP, stonehenge too dull to bother with, and pyramids completely useless. This will make early game far duller.
     
  5. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    They may make sense in terms of realism, but in terms of gameplay they don't. Gameplay>realism.
     
  6. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    No, I was kind of hoping for the old Civ 4 modifers of "We have been at peace for so long!", "Our open borders bring us closer together!", "We appreciate your supply of resources", and "You have shared your technology with us". Because good trading relationships over hundreds of years should have an impact that sticks a bit, you know? Is it so much to ask for lasting good relations?
     
  7. aleph0

    aleph0 Chieftain

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    Why not? Commerce-related positive modifiers are much easier to achieve and the effects of good commerce relations have a much more limited timespan compared with conquering a capitol.
     
  8. Agent Cooper

    Agent Cooper Lynch's Creation

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    Not exactly.

    My main point it that a deity AI civ as an example, might generate x amount of food per turn in it's 3 cities basically from the get go. If they build HG (10fpt), the overall impact might correspond to a 25% increase of x, meaning the HG will increase the food production for their entire empire with 25%.

    If the player build the HG in his only city, the capitol, that percentage will be much higher because you only have one city generating food. As such, HG will have a more drastic effect on the growth of your empire than it will have on the overall growth of the AI civs empire.

    Of course, compared directly capitol vs capitol, the growth rate caused by the HG will probably be similar between you and the AI.

    As such, the HG could turn out to be quite a big deal to you, but not quite so much a big deal to the AI.
     
  9. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    Increasingly heading for a *BALANCED* gameplay.

    Policy finishers (Markus, how's that?!?), GreatPersons Info (Valkrionn?!), *true* RA flow and effects, un_happiness (superb twist, btw), complete revamp of "empire" managing. Can't say i won't keep investing into any subsequent DLC releases to thank this excellent :goodjob:work by Devs.

    The big surprise wasn't really only about Replays or Hot-Seat, after all.

    What a weird summer (+) this will cause!
     
  10. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    IMO, there is one simple fact that both of you are ignoring... You won't be making just one trade with the AI, and then ignoring them for the rest of the game. Not if you are playing the game with any kind of proficiency at least.

    The benefit from each individual trade wears off... As does the trade. But when one fades away, another generally takes it's place, turn after turn. So long as you maintain a good trading relationship, does this not yield what is in effect a permanent bonus?
     
  11. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Deity

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    I think it gives a better gameplay because nukes are so powerfull in this game it is only right to give you a perament diplomacy hit for using it...

    Secondly you only need to take a capital for domination victory as result it is easier then previes civ so there must be some drawbacks for it....... And if you lose your own capital you cant win domination victory so it makes sence they are mad.
    I again it is better that they give a negatif modifer for it.
     
  12. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    You know, that's actually the first comment on that I've seen.... :mischief:
     
  13. aleph0

    aleph0 Chieftain

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    And that was exactly my point: at Deity doesn't affect the game so much if the AI gets it while it could significantly alter the game balance if you get it. So it's reasonable that at higher levels it is really difficult to get it.
     
  14. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    Not when the AI suddenly goes Guarded from seeing you trying to win or some other spur-of-the-moment change that suddenly prevents worthwhile trades.

    And could you people stop putting words in my mouth? It's really annoying. Where did I say that I wanted a permanent positive modifier after only one trade?
     
  15. ArcaneSeraph

    ArcaneSeraph Warlord

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    I had to have a bit of a chuckle reading some of the posts.

    Poster#1 says: The game is becomming too much of a warmonger game and it seems now to have any chance to compete on harder difficulties I need to either go to war (which I don't want) or build good wonders that I might not be able to get (e.g., HG)

    Poster #2 says: Well if someone else builds the HG just go attack them then its yours.

    Ummm... failure to communicate?
     
  16. Agent Cooper

    Agent Cooper Lynch's Creation

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    OK - sorry, I misread your post then as the HG not being a big deal for the player.

    Yes, the AI that gets the HG (again, if 10fpt is correct), will basically just be more overpowered than it already is.

    AI civ + HG = V8 engine -> supercharged V8 engine
    Player + HG = V6 engine -> supercharged V8 engine

    PS: on immortal/deity, the AI civ has more cars than you do :cool:
     
  17. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    I agree that the new changes in terms of negative modifiers make sense, but when compared to the positive ones they don't as much. However, others have been making a good, and embarrassingly obvious point that you are going to be sustaining trades throughout the game, so it is effectively a permanent positive modifier.
     
  18. MkLh

    MkLh King

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    AFAIK the AI doesn't get any food bonus, but a bonus on growth - i.e. it needs less food to get a new citizen. This means that in some sense, extra food is more profitable to the AI than to a player as the same amount of food gives more citizens to the AI. The same goes for expansion, where that +10 fpt would really help the AI to churn out its cheap settlers but not so much a player who is limited by happiness.
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I don't believe I did... I just pointed out that you won't be making just one trade. My apologies if you interpreted it that way, but then, you would be guilty of putting words in my mouth on that one. ;)
     
  20. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    One thing that I know many players can do if they feel that higher difficulties would be harder to beat with this patch. Play on lower levels to get use to and then move to higher levels when you are ready. this solution is so simple to do.
     

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