Jungle tiles

[ParadigmPlague]

Am I the only one that hates jungle tiles? Takes years to improve them and I seem to get unhappy with my civ when my cities have jungle tiles because of masonry tech to remove jungle etc

 

[OneOfOldiest]

Try this: improve jungle to trading posts, build universities, take Free thoutgh from rationalism policy tree and result will be: 2 food, 3 science + 1 or 2 gold per tile.
I do like jungle becouse of that.

 

[curwen]

add culture with the correct belief

 

[Frossa]

I hate them too. If you start in one, unless you're someone who can benefit from them, like maybe the Aztecs or the Iroquois, you're not gonna do well early game. You have to rush Bronze working to be able to improve anything, and you have crap production.

 

[cinattra]

They are fine if you a have a couple of hills to build mines and the city is built next to a river.

You just can't have a city totally surrounded by jungle with nothing else.

Monty loves jungles! The Jaguar stays relevant for a long time when they fight in the jungle.

 

[Frossa]

They are fine if you a have a couple of hills to build mines and the city is built next to a river.

You just can't have a city totally surrounded by jungle with nothing else.

Monty loves jungles! The Jaguar stays relevant for a long time when they fight in the jungle.

I'd still prefer a start on Plains rather than Jungle any day. But once again, unless I'm Montezuma or Hiawatha.

 

[red_doctor]

It is true that jungle is hard to manage with. But after Education a big city with a good amount of jungle tiles can really boost your science.

Bananas are very useful combined with jungle. They provide the population to make the city viable when it's jungle all over the place.

I love jungle when it is near my city but not right next to it (3 tiles optimal). So early the city devolops smoothly, and by the time jungle becomes relevant, my borders have just reached it.

Those 2 food/2 gold/3 science trading posts if you go for Science are probably the best tiles you can get. Also great for puppets.

 

[joncnunn]

Jungle start: Instant re-roll ever since G&K postponed Trade posts to Guilds.

A Jungle city as a 3rd or 4th city: Can get productive.

Another start that is an instant re-roll for me in BNW: All nearby luxury tiles being sea ones. (Work boats expensive in early game and needing two of them slows down NC too much)

 

[njmfff]

Jungle start: Instant re-roll ever since G&K postponed Trade posts to Guilds.

A Jungle city as a 3rd or 4th city: Can get productive.

Another start that is an instant re-roll for me in BNW: All nearby luxury tiles being sea ones. (Work boats expensive in early game and needing two of them slows down NC too much)

Yeah, plus sea lux are not that great for trade, because most of the coastal CS tend to have them.

As for the jungle titles. City surrounded by jungle is very easy to defend early on, when units are slow, plus it gives great boost to science once you get Universities running, and jungles tend to have strategic resources (like Uranium), so yeah, why not.

but jungle start can be painful, because you have to waste many turns to get Bronze Working and another XYZ turns to clear up jungle so you could just farm the title.

 

[Qoma]

The big problem with my games seems to be that I prefer civs that don't have a start preference. So once you start up a game with random AI civs, the start preferred civs get their happy convenient starts, and that leaves the remaining civs with, you guessed it, another jungle start.

 

[adwcta]

don't understand all the hate. you know you can chop some of them right? they don't all have to be preserved. you usually get (or should move to) an area with at least 4 nearby non-jungle tiles for a start. my jungle starts are never horrible (obviously not good, but not horrible). Jungles also have bananas.

and now, between food routes and hammer routes, you can really compensate for a jungle start without that much sacrifice. just focus everything on production post-universities and you'll be fine. also, get the pantheon for culture, or if someone else has it, don't get a religion and give him (and no one else) open borders. it's the 3rd best pantheon after desert and fish imo.

I think tundra start is so much worse.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I am starting to appreciate +1 culture from jungle pantheon as well. Border expansion with the nerfed culture buildings in BNW is so terrible that the extra boost from working a banana or two early on in a city really does make a difference. Especially so if playing Liberty w/o the really powerful Tradition opener.

The only downer to that is getting a religion on Deity w/o a terrain pantheon is really not possible without a really strong and early UB.

 

[adwcta]

I am starting to appreciate +1 culture from jungle pantheon as well. Border expansion with the nerfed culture buildings in BNW is so terrible that the extra boost from working a banana or two early on in a city really does make a difference. Especially so if playing Liberty w/o the really powerful Tradition opener.

The only downer to that is getting a religion on Deity w/o a terrain pantheon is really not possible without a really strong and early UB.

Or, you can find two faith-CSs and, spend all your gold to ally them instead of purchasing buildings. It'll slow your start, but less so than going down Piety over Tradition/Liberty. But yes, it's very situational and definitely not a guarantee without being a faith-civ.

One more bonus, jungle is relatively low priority on the AI's settle list, so, you don't get crowded as much in the very beginning unless the AI actually has nowhere else to go (or like, a desert/tundra as the other options). A nice little bonus for diplomacy and in deference to your guaranteed slower start. At least it has a late-game benefit, unlike tundra, which I feel are only good for diplo victories.

 

[rattlejaw]

It's also pretty defensible, which counts for something. It'd be nice if you could set up jungle lumber mills. I mean, trees are kind of a thing in jungles, right?

 

[Bostock]

<argument from realism>But jungle is harder to grow back than the kinds of forest we traditionally associate with lumber mills</argument from realism>

Arguing from gameplay, I'd say jungle starts are at least OK if you can pick up a couple hammers somewhere (worth spending a turn moving at the start). And they're fantastic later on.

 

[peddroelm]

don't understand all the hate. you know you can chop some of them right? they don't all have to be preserved. ...

sure you can chop - you only need a 9-10 turn research detour and then lock a very expensive early game resource (worker) in place for enough time for him to have improved 2 non-jungled luxuries .. If that jungle is on top of your only capital luxury that is like a 20 turns delay on NC ...

For all the trouble jungle tiles should give +50 hammers and + 25 beakers when chopped .. And then maybe I would start hating jungle starts a bit less .. Maybe ..

 

[troublmaker]

Just make 5 workers, duh!

 

[Bostock]

Or settle the resource!

 

[Belboz99]

BNW with Brazil and Brazilwood Camps, and around 20 jungle tiles between 4 cities....

Each Jungle tile provided

3 CPT with the founding belief for +1CPT per Jungle + Brazillwood Camps.
2 GPT with Brazilwood Camps.
2 SPT with Universities.

Even before Brazilwood camps, around turn 75 I was cranking out over 45CPT with the jungle tiles and the faith when other stuff was added (Monuments, etc)

With Brazilwood Camps I was cranking out over 200CPT with everything else added in, and that was barely past 0AD.

2SPT and 2GPT were icing on the cake!

 

[NukeAJS]

Yup. It's the worst part of Brazil's start. Sure brazilwood camps are good, but machinery is so far away.

Next time I get Brazil, I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and take the ten turns to plop my first settler down that isn't jungle and then settle my other cities in/near the jungle.