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K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword

Discussion in 'Civ 4 - K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword' started by karadoc, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. En_Dotter

    En_Dotter Prince

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    Serbia
    I dont know if someone does, but i dont.
    Also, i support the jungle camp thing. Makes jungles more viable in the game. Maybe they should become part of K-Mod unless ppl are rly keen on the BtS stuff.
     
  2. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    Cant wait for the next update :D
     
  3. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    Here's some information about how global warming works in K-Mod:
    • Positive health buildings have no effect. (ie. aqueducts and hospitals do not reduce global warming.)
    • Buildings that reduce pollution do reduce global warming. (eg. public transport and recycling centers)
    • Civilizations that pollute more are not more likely to be hit by global warming. Global warming is a global effect, and it pays no attention to who is actually doing the polluting. however...
    • Civilizations that pollute more will suffer more unhappiness. ("save the planet")
    • Global warming can turn forests into jungles, and it can destroy jungles - so it can amplify itself... but it does not target the forests or jungles. It will only hit them randomly.
    • Global warming does target cold tiles. ie. global warming events are much more likely to occur on ice and tundra than they are on grassland or plains.
    • 3-4 events per turn is not really a lot, because most of those events will be hitting the polar ice-caps - so they don't really have a large effect. But the number of events per turn tends to grow quite fast -- and once the icecaps have melted, the bulk of the events will start hitting the grassland, etc. ... I think the "severity rate" on the environmental screen works pretty well - it's purpose is basically to tell you what I think is a significant rate of global warming. 3-4 events per turn would probably still be "low". "High" might be more like 20 events per turn. - The game I just played as a particularly long one. It finished in 2023 AD and global warming was really quite severe; it was somewhere above 35 per turn at the end, and most of the grassland was turned to plains... it doesn't get much worse than that.
    • Environmentalism can significantly reduce your pollution, and thus reduce your global warming anger. (I made a particular point of changing environmentalism from +6 health to -15% unhealth from population - so that it's a reduction in pollution rather than just a gain in health.)
     
  4. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    As I took over my neighbors, I came to realize that the ai tends to chop just about everything...
    Plains forests and tundra forests and jungle not within a cities direct zone of control, should be on a "do not chop" list for the ai imo...

    I actually did pretty good keeping alot of trees alive until global warming took'em.

    I feel kinda helpless as my land is being destroyed at least once per turn, although I rushed public transportation and recycling centers, maybe they should be more expensive but more powerful? or give workers the ability to plant trees after a certain point.

    :(

    I havent built one single coal plant either!
     
  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    It's been years since I played vanilla BtS or Basic CIV IV, but all the Mods for BtS that I Do play you get hammers for chopping Jungle as well as from Forests. To the point now that I think it is strange Not to get hammers from chopping jungles. :0

    JosEPh ;)
     
  6. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    So excited for the next update!!!

    Edit: How about a pollution reduction effect from forest perserves? And/or if you take over a city with a coal plant, you can destroy it/sell it?
     
  7. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    Regarding that jungle-camp mod - by the look of the xml, it's actually part of a larger mod. It has stuff like "BONUS_COFFEE" and "TECH_NATUROPATHY" and so on - tech and bonuses which aren't in K-Mod. -- So that means it isn't trivial to just plonk the new camp straight into K-Mod. (Also, I don't mean to imply that I actually intend to add the jungle camp... I was just browsing the xml to see what it was meant to do.)

    Regarding global warming again; in my experience with K-Mod, in most game it has very little effect, but in /some/ games it can become a big deal. And I think that's a good thing. I think it adds some variety and some tension to the late game. In most games, the world passes the sustainability threshold during the industrial era - and never again drops below the threshold - because civs just keep building more and more factories etc. And as long as the world is above the threshold, global warming will accelerate. It's really just a matter of time. As I said, most of the time the game is over before GW really gets going - but not always.

    It is possible to have a sustainable civ in the late game, with factories and power etc., - but it isn't easy. Basically you have to run environmentalism, have recycling centers everywhere, use nuclear or hydro power rather than coal power; and actually completely disconnect your coal. (either trade it away, or just don't mine it). If you are willing to forgo air units, then you should disconnect your oil as well. (Coal and oil both produce unhealthiness in factories and industrial parks.) -- And with all that, you're likely to have a civ who's pollution is just below the local sustainability threshold. -- So if all civs did that then you could completely halt global warming. And of course, if you keep enough trees in your land, you won't need to do all that stuff to be sustainable.

    It's pretty unlikely that the AI would want to help you with all that; but at least it would get you a very low "relative contribution" - and if your relative contribute is low, that means someone else's must be high -- which means they will get more GW anger -- which will encourage them to build more recycling centers and switch to environmentalism!

    Having said that; the AI does take some actions to reduce their pollution -- particularly if they are getting a lot of "save the planet" anger. Under most conditions, they won't chop forests or jungles after the threshold has been reached -- although by that stage it's usually too late anyway.

    By the way; although you can't destroy your own buildings, you can effectively disable coal power plants by building some other kind of power plant. The coal plant will stop producing pollution if you have a cleaner source of power.

    The next version still isn't ready yet; but there is progress. I'm still not planning any major changes. There will just be a whole heap of minor improvements and bug fixes.

    One bad thing is that when I was playing multiplayer 1.10b recently, we got an OOS error. :( I was a very disappointed, because I thought I'd completely eliminated all OOS problems. So I'm thinking that one of my more recent changes must have a mistake in it. :( Since then I've been kind of paranoid about OOS problems, and I've changed a bunch of suspicious looking stuff. It's really difficult to be certain that OOS is not possible, because of the way the original code is structured, but I'm hopefully optimistic that I've fixed the problem. -- (Surely the problem must have been somewhere in all the junk I changed... otherwise I have no idea.)
     
  8. TheOnlyDJCat

    TheOnlyDJCat Warlord

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    Hi Karadoc,

    I just wanted to start a team multiplayer game this weekend with the 10b version. Did you get OOS frequently, so I should wait a bit and play one last game with only BBAI and BUG MOD or is 10b playable with a few occasional reloads/reconnects?
     
  9. sussexonian

    sussexonian Chieftain

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    Hi Karadoc,

    Clicking the "+" and "-" buttons on the financial adviser screen cases the display to flip to the new Environment adviser.

    Again, thanks for all your good work.
     
  10. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    I've played a few multiplayer games on 1.10b, and only seen an OOS problem once. So I don't think you need to wait for the next version.

    It's worth pointing out though that when there was an OOS problem, it happened a few turns in a row. It was fixed when everyone quit and the game was rehosted using an autosave.
    Spoiler :
    This makes me think that it was probably caused by a problem with the "CAR Mod" - because that mod doesn't save the cache that it uses... I've changed it now so that it does save the cache.


    Thanks. I hadn't noticed that. I'll try to fix it right away. Apparently it only happens with the research + / -, (ie. not with culture or espionage.), and apparently the buttons do actually change your research -- but they flip to the other screen as well.
     
  11. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Jungle Camp: I pulled it from a RoM version so yes it has many dependencies. I meant to post the original JC Mod Mod that Vincentz 1st created for RoM and grabbed the wrong one.

    If I get some time and can get Vincentz to respond to my PM I might actually get a version of JC working that could be added to K-Mod as an add-on/Modmod. A lot of ifs and maybes I know. ;)

    I didn't expect you to add it karadoc but I did want your opinion and input.

    JosEPh
     
  12. En_Dotter

    En_Dotter Prince

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    Speaking of this. Would the game be drastically changed if the slider could have step of 5% instead of 10%? Sometimes it just sucks to see u lose like 2 gold per turn if u put to 80% but u get +5 if u are at 90%. And i want +1.5 gold per turn at 85%! :D
     
  13. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    I am playing a continents game and I have about 8 wonders in my cap, 6 great priests, stock exchange, market, grocer, etc etc, and I am building wealth (2nd largest civ)...and somehow, somewhere the enemy is at 1450gnp and I am only floating around 675gnp.

    :( that tech at all costs ai is annoying!

    P/S And its alot harder early on, trying to keep as many trees alive as possible...while the ai destroys every tree it possiblely can.

    craving update! :D
     
  14. stolenrays

    stolenrays Deity

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  15. CaptainMidnight

    CaptainMidnight Warlord

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  16. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    Karadoc anything in particular u need us minions to test?
     
  17. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    Version 1.11 is uploaded. It contains a large sack of minor changes. There are plenty of bug-fixes; the AI should be a bit smarter; and there are some UI improvements that most people probably won't care about.
    Spoiler :
    • Fixed an original BtS problem which made it hard for the player to deselect a unit after all of their units had moved.
    That problem bugged the hell out of me. I really am glad that it's fixed.


    There probably is, but I can't think of anything right now. :crazyeye:

    Regarding this change:
    • Changed the way the AI evaluates ordinary attacks. (This is a significant change. There may be undiscovered negative side effects.)
    That is something that needs some testing, but it isn't easy to test because it's difficult to tell if the AI is making its decisions (and mistakes) based on this new code, or based on something completely unrelated.

    The intended purpose of the change is to stop the AI from wasting units on pointless attacks, but to allow the AI to make attacks with poor odds if their unit is worth significantly less than the unit they are trying to attack.

    The main reason I made this change is that I noticed the AI would sometimes throw its entire stack at a well defended tile, and lose everything without killing a single unit. At first I thought it was a problem with my new stackVsStack code - but it turned out to be a flaw in the original attack code -- so that's why I rewrote it.
     
  18. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Awesome :goodjob:
    That was -very- annoying, finally it's gone :lol:
     
  19. En_Dotter

    En_Dotter Prince

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    Now thats a true debugging if u ask me! <3
     
  20. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Prince

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    Ran into something,

    I sent my first warrior scouting, ran into russians who had worker easily available for the stealing, declared war stole his worker.

    He sent some archers after me, I defended, though I kept my 1st warrior in their forest on the outskirts of their capital's outer culture. Seems like they wanted to expand, they brought 2 archers and a settler from their capital, walked near my warrior, then ran back to their capital and repeated that at least 6 times (escorted settler walks near my warrior-run to capital- then back again).

    And it looked like it wouldve continued, but their forces made me ask for peace. Which kicked that warrior out of their forests.
     

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