Kael gives an Interview

lore-wise the underlying racism kinda bothered me. one continent for white humans, the other for colored folk, all of them evil of course.

sure froggy didn't intend to write an aryan manifest ... but it says a lot about him if it came out like that accidentally. ok, maybe i read to much into it, but seeing the posts stardock employees do in their forum, it's undeniable that stardock is overwhelmingly conservative, republican and abusive of whoever they consider "liberal". and this demographic goes hand-in-hand with racists, so i think my guess is not far off.
 
lore-wise the underlying racism kinda bothered me. one continent for white humans, the other for colored folk, all of them evil of course.

sure froggy didn't intend to write an aryan manifest ... but it says a lot about him if it came out like that accidentally. ok, maybe i read to much into it, but seeing the posts stardock employees do in their forum, it's undeniable that stardock is overwhelmingly conservative, republican and abusive of whoever they consider "liberal". and this demographic goes hand-in-hand with racists, so i think my guess is not far off.

Just because this post bothered me...

Racism goes hand in hand with ultra-liberals just as much. Is it not racism to presume, just because of the color of one's skin, that they are less fortunate than you, that they require aid to get through life, that their culture is superior to our own?

To me, that is every bit as racist. And all the more disgusting, as the person is both dishonest about it, and is able to cause FAR more damage.

But this is horribly off topic now. :goodjob:
 
I noticed that some 'civilizations' in Elemental have the Ugly trait, as a weakness... They should all receive that trait by default, if you ask me.
 
Just because this post bothered me...

Racism goes hand in hand with ultra-liberals just as much. Is it not racism to presume, just because of the color of one's skin, that they are less fortunate than you, that they require aid to get through life, that their culture is superior to our own?

To me, that is every bit as racist. And all the more disgusting, as the person is both dishonest about it, and is able to cause FAR more damage.

But this is horribly off topic now. :goodjob:

oh, you mean that 'those poor primitives. we should give them real civilization'-attitude?

yeah, that's racist, too, but at least there's no malice behind it. just arrogance.
but yeah, i don't really want to talk about that one, either. :)
 
no, if it can be backed up by statistics, its called truth.

Statistics showing that the issue is in fact income and upbringing, not race. Race is ultimately all but meaningless; If someone says they come from the inner city, and you are from the suburbs, then yes, by all means they are less fortunate than you. Race itself does not factor in there, even if it is a sad fact that non-whites are more likely to be in those situations.

Help the poor, because they are poor, not because they belong to a different race.

oh, you mean that 'those poor primitives. we should give them real civilization'-attitude?

yeah, that's racist, too, but at least there's no malice behind it. just arrogance.
but yeah, i don't really want to talk about that one, either. :)

Yes, them. :p

I just find that as causing even more damage down the line than traditional racism. It undermines society.
 
Yes, them. :p

I just find that as causing even more damage down the line than traditional racism. It undermines society.

um, no.
slavery and genocide? Not a liberal ideal.
 
Statistics showing that the issue is in fact income and upbringing, not race. Race is ultimately all but meaningless; If someone says they come from the inner city, and you are from the suburbs, then yes, by all means they are less fortunate than you. Race itself does not factor in there, even if it is a sad fact that non-whites are more likely to be in those situations.
Actually, race does factor in, because (in the US, at least) those problems are largely the result of centuries of institutionalized racism that existed until only a few decades ago, and because of racist attitudes that still exist.

Even with identical incomes, a black family on average will have significantly less wealth than an average white family. They tend to have smaller and less potent networks to benefit from. And because of the increasing stratification of wealth and the decline in social mobility (for all races), their situation is even less likely to improve.

Pretending that race doesn't matter is a disingenuous tactic usually used by those who advocate "equality of opportunity" over "equality of outcome", despite the fact that opportunity is not equal, and that outcome is the only objective metric by which to compare. The closest thing is "equality before the law", and even that is arguably only on paper, given the lopsided treatment of minorities in the legal system.

(why am I posting about this at 5 on a Sunday morning?)
 
um, no.
slavery and genocide? Not a liberal ideal.

Nor a conservative one, as those two ideologies didn't quite exist several thousand years ago. You know, when slavery started.

The high and mighty, "I'm better than you so I feel sorry for you" racism does more damage down the road, at this point. Slavery is no longer a factor (in the US at least), and theoretically all races should be equal under our laws. This form of racism enables those affected to feel as though they are being helped, when in reality they are just made dependent on government handouts and aid. That is NOT a good thing.

Actually, race does factor in, because (in the US, at least) those problems are largely the result of centuries of institutionalized racism that existed until only a few decades ago, and because of racist attitudes that still exist.

Even with identical incomes, a black family on average will have significantly less wealth than an average white family. They tend to have smaller and less potent networks to benefit from. And because of the increasing stratification of wealth and the decline in social mobility (for all races), their situation is even less likely to improve.

Pretending that race doesn't matter is a disingenuous tactic usually used by those who advocate "equality of opportunity" over "equality of outcome", despite the fact that opportunity is not equal, and that outcome is the only objective metric by which to compare. The closest thing is "equality before the law", and even that is arguably only on paper, given the lopsided treatment of minorities in the legal system.

(why am I posting about this at 5 on a Sunday morning?)

Allow me to rephrase it. Race should not factor in there. I may not have been perfectly clear, but if you read the last statement I made in that quote you see that I realize race still plays a role.

But it shouldn't. Race should not be a factor, whether you are speaking about getting a job, the amount of money someone has, or whether they need aid from the rest of society.

That said, I'm of the belief that too much government aid is a terribly bad thing (just look at Native Americans; They receive more aid than any other group, and yet remain the poorest, with 4/5 unemployed), so rather than simply shoveling free money at those who need help, I would advocate better school programs (which do indeed work), adult schools, help getting a job. These programs exist, in minor forms, and are often ignored in favor of free money.

Anyone who does not want to work, does not want to improve their lot, and simply wants to live off welfare.... Why are we giving them aid? It may sound cold, but that is just the trap that we are in atm. The more money we give people, the less motivation they have to acquire it themselves.
 
Great, a bunch of political arguments on a computer game forum. Such a great source of information and ideas.


On Kael and FfH: I'll probably wait for future interviews to see what the opinions of Kael on FfH still are.

FFH2 is more or less complete. Furthermore, he doesn't owe the public anything. You should be happy that he (and the other people who worked on it) spent so much time working on a free mod in the first place.

Not to mention that, with Civ 5 out, interest in any civ 4 mod has dropped significantly, and I've noticed a significant activity drop off on most Civ 4 mod forums, including this one.
 
Liberals and Conservatives are both screwing things up. Just saying. Screw partisan politics.

Oh, and anyone who thinks slavery is no longer a factor needs to take a long hard look at world economics. Somewhere between exploitative manufacturing (sweatshops, etc), wage slavery (McDonalds, etc) and the prison industrial complex (more black Americans are currently in prison than were ever slaves), the idea that we've made progress on this is pretty dubious.
 
Not to mention that, with Civ 5 out, interest in any civ 4 mod has dropped significantly, and I've noticed a significant activity drop off on most Civ 4 mod forums, including this one.
At this very moment 321 people are browsing the Civ IV section of this forum (including all subforums). 185 people are browsing the Civ V section......
 
Maybe Civ V fans play the game, unlike the Civ IV fans who read the forums. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW!!!
 
Liberals and Conservatives are both screwing things up. Just saying. Screw partisan politics.

Oh, and anyone who thinks slavery is no longer a factor needs to take a long hard look at world economics. Somewhere between exploitative manufacturing (sweatshops, etc), wage slavery (McDonalds, etc) and the prison industrial complex (more black Americans are currently in prison than were ever slaves), the idea that we've made progress on this is pretty dubious.

I agree. :goodjob:

And I did say "at least in the US". ;) Sweat shops and similar exploitations are very much a problem, and often can be traced back to Western companies, but slavery in that form does not exist in the US.

McDonals as wage slavery... That's debatable, IMO. It's an unskilled job typically held by teenagers. Better example would be Wal-Mart, where employees only make enough get by assuming they do their shopping at Wal-Mart. However, that is not racially driven, which was the topic here. ;)

The prison issue is, in my opinion, caused by government handouts. Those who receive large amounts of welfare over multiple generations are hugely more likely to be unemployed, have dealings with drugs/crime, or end up in jail. If you want to stop that cycle, then help people get out of those situations, and stand on their own feet, rather than throw money at them.
 
Well, gonna bring this a little back on topic.

Latest FFH patch still goes OOS, just tried several games on marathon with AIs (appears that AI are still doing it). Happens around turns 400-500, at first every 30-40 turns, which is manageable, until eventually every 3-4 turns, which is not manageable when loading a game has to take a couple of minutes (over LAN!).

So, since a fix seems far off, I was WONDERING, if someone could take the wonders of Patch G, the last stable multiplayer patch, and fix Hyborem in it, so that he can capture cities. Cannot someone with coding experience simply copy the fixed code from a later patch? Of course I'm simplifying things, but you never know.

That way we can get a working multiplayer patch AND have Hyborem.
 
Aw, he brought it back to topic.
hey, what was the topic?
 
At this very moment 321 people are browsing the Civ IV section of this forum (including all subforums). 185 people are browsing the Civ V section......

both rife and mom have created their own forums... afaik both are very very very active, at least the mom-one, atm server break down, that's why I am here:D
 
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