Kaguya-Himes 5 Impossible Requests for Civ 5

[Chiyochan]

My Five Impossible Civilization 5 Requests, which defeated so many humans in the past...
How many of them can you fulfill?

1. The terrain of Civilization 5 have become recessive to tile features. My first impossible request for Civilization 5, You must cure this genetic disorder and make Tile Features and Terrain bonuses additive.

2. Preprogrammed Scenario AI. The XML provided by Fraxis is robust, but it alone is not sufficient to Tell an AI exactly what to do in a scenario. My Second Impossible Civilization request, A user friendly system of ordering AI behavior. down to the improvements they will build, the places they will settle, the technologies and policies they will take. Can you possibly design a tool that will let everyone create interesting scenarios.

3. Improved Civilization behavior. Civilizations have atrocious behavior. Many of their personalities are paper thin. They are so mad that many of them will forgo high yield Core provinces adjacent to their capital, for some place far away in Siberia. They will look at others taking city states with such disdain, that a single conquest will have the entire world at a player's throat. They are so horrible in offense and defense they cannot form a front, they cannot even value enemy troops, often attacking useless triremes with seigeworks while melee units approach their capital. This request; You must overall improve the AI's ability to think including to value threats and Conduct Combat, value their land and holdings and settle in good places, and to trade well. If the AI cannot competently compete with the players holdings and economy on Prince, You have not mastered this impossible request.

4. The fourth request is simpler than AI, Can you do it I wonder? Many have called a return of layered maps for Civ 5. My what an interesting concept. Can you be the one to extend the engine and SDK so that it can handle multiple linked maps in parallel? I'll be lenient, You can even replace all terrain assets with Civ 3 like 2d textures. As long as the linked maps remain functional you have fulfilled the fourth impossible request.

5. The fifth and final impossible request for Civilization 5 is more than just the giant map request of yesteryear. Even more than just the tidbits and bugs of the game. To really improve and expand the functionality of Civ 5's system, I want you to adopt the Pops system of Victoria. Too long have the citizens of civilization been abstractions. The springboard of this civilization 5 mod leads to nothing less than the desires of your people, The valuing of your troops, and the stability of your empire. With this request it becomes not only possible to create the most robust and intuitive revolution mod. It gives your people an identity of their own. Implementing such a revolutionary mod will require discretion and much testing, but for functionality, the request requires distinctions of class, wealth, met or unmet needs, desires and ideology, and the referencing of such aspects for scripts.


[Note: All of these requests are supposed to be really hard maybe impossible but I feel that the entire community would benefit from them, They are not requests for just myself, Cookie to whoever gets the reference.]

 

[Slowpoke]

Heh, well these are good long term goals, but atm I think we should be focusing on getting a good "base" mod to fix some really awful problems. (Except #1, that really would be nice right now. I think they took it out because of hill/forest/longhouse/lumbermill probably).

Once modders get it sorted out, #5 sounds pretty awesome. Personally, I want to work on a mod that makes soldiers and actual class of citizen. E.g. the disincentive for fighting long wars and losing soldiers/parts of soldier brigades is actual population loss, and eventually towns where soldiers came from that took heavy losses would start revolting.

Edit: btw your sig's got to be a kate beaton quote right?

 

[csebal]

I can probably help you with this one:

1. ... You must cure this genetic disorder and make Tile Features and Terrain bonuses additive.

	<Features>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="FEATURE_FOREST"/>
			<Set YieldNotAdditive="false" />
		</Update>
	</Features>

Also a few notes:
- less colors. Pretty colors are pretty, but make it a pain in the A. to read through text. Seriously, what were you thinking when you wrote point 4? 5 different colors on one line. EEk.
- less literature. If it entertains you, thats cool.. it is hard to read, especially if you are not a native english speaker. I consider myself to be rather good when it comes to english, but even I had a headache by the time i finished reading your post. Well, that might have been related to the colors.. hard to tell really.

Thank you

Also: why make a new thread for requests, when there is already one stickied?

 

[QES]

Also: why make a new thread for requests, when there is already one stickied?

Because she made it super pretty with lots of colors? The colors did make you slow down and consider what she was saying, while a bit of a pain to read - i have to admit, it achieved it's goal eloquently.

 

[The Boz]

It just annoyed my mind.

 

[Nercury]

I am interested in mod that allows other multiple mods to add features, resources, goodies and maybe terrain types without conflicting each other. This means rewriting default balancer in AssignStartingPlots, and maybe MapGenerator, and... maybe much more. I am still investigating.

 

[Afforess]

1. is easy, the rest require the source code, which we don't have... so those are impossible.

 

[darkedone02]

this should be in customization.... not modpack as thou has not made a modpack.

 

[Chiyochan]

this should be in customization.... not modpack as thou has not made a modpack.

There's a sticky of a similar topic in this section.

I had no idea the first one would be so easy, Maybe i should come up with a new impossible request? although that wouldn't be fair.

 

[Valkrionn]

My Five Impossible Civilization 5 Requests, which defeated so many humans in the past...
How many of them can you fulfill?

1. Simple, can be done already with a limited amount of xml.
2. Might be possible using lua (doubtful), but even if it were.... Terribly inefficient and would be slow.
3. AI will be worked on by everyone. Though I feel I should say one thing... The AI is not actually as bad as many believe. I'll explain below after the list.
4. Not happening. Engine does not support it, and we don't have engine access. I suppose you could completely recreate the map when you switch layers... But nothing will have happened in the other map, it would be slow, and would have numerous issues. IE, a gimmick, never implemented well.
5. Not familiar with the system you mention, but likely possible given DLL access and an interested modder.

Now, my point about the AI... Put it this way. If you declare on an AI and steamroll them because they have no units, you think the AI is dumb. However, if you declare on an AI and steamroll them because all their units are off fighting a war, the AI looks good for successfully planning a war and you feel smart for attacking while it is distracted.

Same situation, vastly different attitudes about it.

There is also the fact that you occasionally get some amazing AI behavior, like a switch is flipped... A single AI behavies 2-3 times better than all the others, and even poses a challenge. I've had a few games like that... If we could find exactly what that switch is, the AI will be FAR better.

 

[Fanghorn]

1. Simple, can be done already with a limited amount of xml.
2. Might be possible using lua (doubtful), but even if it were.... Terribly inefficient and would be slow.
3. AI will be worked on by everyone. Though I feel I should say one thing... The AI is not actually as bad as many believe. I'll explain below after the list.
4. Not happening. Engine does not support it, and we don't have engine access. I suppose you could completely recreate the map when you switch layers... But nothing will have happened in the other map, it would be slow, and would have numerous issues. IE, a gimmick, never implemented well.
5. Not familiar with the system you mention, but likely possible given DLL access and an interested modder.

Now, my point about the AI... Put it this way. If you declare on an AI and steamroll them because they have no units, you think the AI is dumb. However, if you declare on an AI and steamroll them because all their units are off fighting a war, the AI looks good for successfully planning a war and you feel smart for attacking while it is distracted.

Same situation, vastly different attitudes about it.

There is also the fact that you occasionally get some amazing AI behavior, like a switch is flipped... A single AI behavies 2-3 times better than all the others, and even poses a challenge. I've had a few games like that... If we could find exactly what that switch is, the AI will be FAR better.

About Number 4. There goes the most important concept of the Ascent of Mankind project.

About the AI. How succesful is the AI if it gets steamrolled? not to mention all the mistakes it makes that lead to losing that war. (Target selection, Front forming, allout warfare when defense would be far stronger) As the AI has no real sense of own cultural ground and is dependant on ressources its like usual the availability of such ressources that makes the AI strong or not. Just needs a stronger decision making process.

Whatever, these are really powerful requests (except for number 1 and 3), needed their own thread and are just colorfully beautiful . Thanks for those.

 

[kaltorak]

Now, my point about the AI... Put it this way. If you declare on an AI and steamroll them because they have no units, you think the AI is dumb. However, if you declare on an AI and steamroll them because all their units are off fighting a war, the AI looks good for successfully planning a war and you feel smart for attacking while it is distracted.

Yes but... What's the conclusion of this? If the AI had an army which would be conquering some other cities while you take theirs, it would be considered good? But it doesn't...
Even more, the AI problem is not the lack of units, but how you defeat armies much stronger than yours because they move/attack like a monkey

 

[Valkrionn]

Yes but... What's the conclusion of this? If the AI had an army which would be conquering some other cities while you take theirs, it would be considered good? But it doesn't...
Even more, the AI problem is not the lack of units, but how you defeat armies much stronger than yours because they move/attack like a monkey

Well, look at it this way. If you attack an AI and find no resistance, you think the AI is crap. On the other hand, if you know that the AI planned (and is pulling off) a successful sneak attack on another AI (which happens ALL THE TIME, actually) and attacked while there army is away... Then you feel better about the AI for being capable of it, and about yourself for striking at the right moment.

Small differences in the information given you can make large differences in your perception.

 

[Fanghorn]

Valk: There look! A Shadow. Sneak attack from last game.

Sounds like you say Telegraphs are cool while we have twitter allready. "AI makes hidden ingenious moves that still result in its defeat within 5 turns after declaration of War." Whatever, go on with the actual topic.

 

[Valkrionn]

Valk: There look! A Shadow. Sneak attack from last game.

Sounds like you say Telegraphs are cool while we have twitter allready. "AI makes hidden ingenious moves that still result in its defeat within 5 turns after declaration of War." Whatever, go on with the actual topic.

Yes... It results in it's defeat because YOU attacked at the right time. Put it in terms of human players if you have to: Player A suddenly attacks Player B, and has him completely off guard. While this happens, Player C attacks and conquers Player A, who had had to invest all his troops to take out B.

Same damn situation. Player C feels badass for going with the correct timing.

I am damn well aware that the AI has issues. However, it is NOT as bad as people are saying, not on a grand scale; It is the small scale that kills it. Run a few dozen AI games, then come tell me how much it sucks. And please, differentiate between Strategic and Tactical AI, as the two are very much separate in the code.

 

[Quetz]

I'm curious why this thread hasn't been deleted/moved yet given the (somewhat) obnoxiously proactive forum modding lately..? Is it because it has a cute anime pic? Not that I really care, but there are posts after this one that have been moved for not having a file.

 

[The_J]

this should be in customization.... not modpack as thou has not made a modpack.

There's a sticky of a similar topic in this section.

That's because we don't want masses of threads about ideas in this forum and want to collect them all in a single thread .

Moderator Action: Moved to the main forum.

 

[Chiyochan]

derp

I feel the AI is horrible because after being last in soldiers and the AI declares war on me, I build a few units and steam roll THEM

Oh I also feel its hilarious you dismiss layered maps as a gimmick with that erebus link in your signature, possibly the foremost mod that would benefit from it enormously. not that it couldn't work with other styles of mods.

anyway I added this to my mod built it and i got absolutely no new results. It doesnt work

	<Features>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="FEATURE_FOREST"/>
			<Set YieldNotAdditive="false" />
		</Update>
	</Features>

 

[SerialK]

Oh I also feel its hilarious you dismiss layered maps as a gimmick with that erebus link in your signature, possibly the foremost mod that would benefit from it enormously. not that it couldn't work with other styles of mods.

The explained solution is a gimmick, not the the layered map idea itself

 

[Valkrionn]

I feel the AI is horrible because after being last in soldiers and the AI declares war on me, I build a few units and steam roll THEM

Oh I also feel its hilarious you dismiss layered maps as a gimmick with that erebus link in your signature, possibly the foremost mod that would benefit from it enormously. not that it couldn't work with other styles of mods.

anyway I added this to my mod built it and i got absolutely no new results. It doesnt work

	<Features>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="FEATURE_FOREST"/>
			<Set YieldNotAdditive="false" />
		</Update>
	</Features>

You are not worth arguing with.

Learn the mechanics. Learn how the AI works. Then you will be qualified to discuss it's failures and it's strong suits. Until then, do not try to make it look like others do not know what they are talking about; Much of the time they will.

And I never said multiple maps would be a gimmick. I said the only viable method for implementing it that I am aware of would be a gimmick. Civ5 (and civ4, for that matter) is not built to support it, and without engine access the only ways to add the mechanic would be at most gimmicks on incredibly small maps.