Kerch strait crisis

Show me where Russia has 10,000 artillery pieces pointing to a western big city 40 km away.

So you replied then deleted your reply.

Thorgalaeg quoted your post in the thread Kerch strait crisis.
19:21


The problems that come after an invasion are absolutely to do with conventional power.
The purpose of an invasion is to take and hold territory. If you can not hold the territory the invasion is failing.

So do you have an answer to my post.
 
Nope, it was an error. I was answering to red_elk's post.
 
On a press-conference after G-20, Putin promised further liberalization of entry rules and obtaining citizenship for Ukrainians. That, in response to entry ban imposed by Poroshenko for Russian men. I'm not sure we need further liberalization, though I understand the rationale.

Last year two guys were fixing stuff in my apartment and I noticed that one of them speaks with southern accent (soft "G").
I asked: "Are you from Ukraine?"
"No, I'm from Donbass" - he said.
 
Nah, it is just the opposite. In fact it is only nuclear blackmail that allows Russia to play the superpower in Ukrania, Syria, etc. West (or even USA alone) doesn't need to use nuclear blackmail on Russia as it is much more stronger conventionally and could wipe Russia out of Crimea without much difficulty.

uh , actually no . And am not a Keystone cop that fights with TV clips or Youtube videos .


Uh, I have the feeling it is not me who needs to get real here. There is not even the need to speculate about this since we have the perfect antecedent and example in the First and Second Gulf Wars. How long Iraq, with a similar army as Iran, as proven in the Iran-Iraq war few years before the first Gulf War, lasted in front of the West armies? It was laughable, a walk in the park. Neither numbers nor technology are in the same weight category at all, as you would say. The only difference now is that Russia is not a total ruin anymore like in the 90s and has a strong leader whose words are backed with nukes! and China is as strong economically as USA or the EU. So we have the two blocks again and a new cold war, only a bit more subtle than 40 years ago.

one USN F-18 destroyed and admitted only after like a decade only because F-35 needed USN sales for the appearance of mightiness as the Subpar Hornet was economically perfect enough for the reduced role American Naval Aviation is to play these days . The said mighty Powers like trembled with the rumours of one S-300 battery volunteering for Serbian service , and yes a Russian General was killed on the ground with bomb splinters and the like . Like the long honoured "Monkey Version" affair where Russians keep betters in reserve for they can't keep up easily with the American countermeasures . And am saying this with the firm knowledge that you are like also a propellerhead who can argue back .

You said Iran/NK had enough conventional power to detter the west, which is laughable. The problems coming after an invasion has nothing to do with conventional power and are of asimetrical and non-conventional nature, as guerrilla warfare, terrorism, etc.
...

That is the reason Putin hates too much any form of anti-missile shield. It would render Russia mostly irrelevant, as it was back in the 90s when USA et al made his will .

has already been discussed but North Korea has (escalated by the promixity of Seoul to the border) . Which is useful for South Koreans to talk Americans down . They also hate American missile defence as that cuts down South Koreans' power in stopping Americans from liberating South Korea's kinsmen . This is no longer the Sixties to Eighties when Anti-Communism was the only requirement for High Office .
 
this needs to be said before disappearing in the maze below . The Parliamentary Assembly or something of NATO last week declared New Turkey was the only nad first ever "not free" member country . And at the same meeting voted an A-K-P delegate as the deputy speaker or whatever that post is . News agencies insist that it was a vote and not rotational , now that it then seriously implies NATO is very OK with New Turkey being a not free NATO member .

I've been saying for years Russian troops have no business in Georgia or in Japan. No one listen to me either.


Spoiler :


back in the 90s , one cover of the Guccione's had it in big letters "America, wake up and smell the Sushi" . A time when Japan was a juggernaught that would eat the globe , with a massive economy that performed a miracle each year . To be topped by Bush I , the would-be conqueror of Babylon , fixing that aberration that intensely bugs the American Evangelists who so badly wanna erase Iran from History and the lot . Who unfortunately vomited at the shoes of the Japanese Prime Minister at some banquet and Japan has been ever careful to be in recession and the like ever since . Yeah , gonna be another r16 post , that is seemingly incoherent , but you people are indeed wrong about that as usual . You as a literary device , not pointing at any CFC member .

reading such stuff has been useful and yours idiotly seriously stresses the reading part . How to say that , but in Turkey that was a sure way to get that "librul" point of view . That kind of magazines have long defended their sales of imagery of women in the nude with being the vanguard of advanced feelings about Humanity and ı would probably would have never heard of El Salvador , the way America supported death squads and financial oppression of the Poor , the whole thing to be ignored if it was in a Leftist newspaper as Marxist propaganda . By r16 , son of the immigrant family , whose father beaten by the Bulgarian police in front of the Turkish Consulate (while waiting to get a tourist visa 'cause obviously he wouldn't come back) and whose mother remembers the vigil the class kept after Stalin's death . ı have already said a couple of times that was waiting in line to buy milk and some school teacher guy ı had never ever seen would beat r16 the fifteen years old for the mistake of joining in some discussion and dumbly uttering that Afghanistan was surely an analogue of Vietnam , a superpower messing with some poor country ... Hefner's , with Sandy Greenberg on the cover , is the start of my understanding of Counter-Insurgency , that how killing the enemy merely increases the numbers of the enemy , and you really need justice and decency so that you killing the enemy will mean the numbers of the enemy going down . ı think that Guccione cover was some Norwegian .


oh , this is really relevant . You see , when the Soviets melted America was left with the Japanese colossus or something ; was it Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery when some corrupt Japanese businessman seemingly got away with murder and the like ? With the Black guy talking the talk about the Yellow Menace and it still turning out the killer was a White politician because Sony and the whole Japanese industry was pouring massive amounts of money into Hollywood . Which had to be sucked into White coffers as a "fact of life" ... As such and only because Americans are extremely smart and the chosen people of God and all that jazz , the Kuriles were left in Russian hands . Japan has some serious amount of a Defence Budget , they might be entangled with Upper Volta with the Rockets as USSR needed a revision in the day . So that they would slow down and be unable to buy America as a whole .

oh , the Kurile Islands might just have been another Russian humiliation , they really did not need the Sea of Othosk or whatever as a SSBN bastion . With Typhoon in more widespread service , which might have happened with a quicker recovery to the post-Soviet economy . Which basically stems from the fact that America did not "grant" the same level of friendship offered to Germany and Japan . If you open up your economy to Globalization , those who control the "money" will rip you apart , if your educated classes all rush to be oligarks . Unfair ? In the summer of 1992 , (if it had not gone that pear-shaped) Russians would demonstrate ballistic missiles with radar capabilities matching Pershing II , easily killing that American supercarrier in that Norwegian fjord ; and giving extra mobility to the system with MiG-31 mothership idea . It has taken Chinese another decade or like even two with the D-31 , because the fjord scenario was made easier with radar maps where the missile guidance could ignore all the mountains to concentrate on the water , while the vast oceans in the Taiwanese case create a huge number of decoy positions that has to be "burned through" by onboard sensors and the like . Naturally , Americans insist it could not have happened , because they have done nothing like dat and no monkey can ever do anything before America invents it , now that me too is also of a nation that's so behind the ever glorious America .

might not match narratives ? Why , Russia was going to downsize since Andropov , with Flanker becoming the fighter with Foxhound becoming multi-role with Fulcrum downgraded to an export item and Gorbachov (because he thought he was so smart and best friend of the West and would still be the same when Peace came) delayed the interception of Matthias Rust . So that he could teach the Red Army and the lot their place .

just like the West "failed" . Russians were pushed a lot , despite having a full surrender and at the same time given a whole propaganda line about emnity against Slavs . So , Serbians were "assaulted" despite it being a sham . Croats were easily ethnically cleansed , despite the entire Yugoslav Army being modelled on territorial defence thing . Cue in claims of Serbians cheating in the previous 4 decades . No , sir . The "answer" to that is Craots were fascists and they were being "stopped" to stop a rogue Germany . So , it came to Bosnians . The West decided to protect them , as much as in Srebrenitza . Which was an UN haven and the Bosnians should not have fought against the rules of the said , because that much was said back in the day , that it happened because the Bosnians were wrong to hide behind the UN shield ... So , the whole world was ready to defend the next UN haven , Some UK Prime Minister angry when some glorious RN Harrier was brought down and his place immediately taken by the French President , because America was trying to steal Algeria with beardies and the French were doing the North Korean with nuclear tests in Mururuae or however you spell that . In addition to allowing the deaths of a million in Ruanda , because the French think they are toughest in the world , despite the speculated one forward and 5 rear gears in their tanks . Because the entire fight was a sham and the Serbians should have provided the facilities for easy points , just like they were allowed to win . Gorazde , ı think . Which they did in the end and Hollywood made a movie with the F-18 down ... The final summer of the Bosnian War was supposed to end with Croats and Serbians acting jointly and clearing the map with no more Bosnians left in Bosnia . Instead Croats blitzed with their 4 MiG-21s and Dayton Accords and American bragging on saving the humanity and the lot . Only because Congregation would have been hurt in Turkey , because Alia Izzetbegovic (the celebrated leader of Bosnians) was proving a White "Islamist" could deliver , while the Bosnian comeback was sure to start with him killed in some "enraged" discussion of why Bosnians were being squeezed everywhere with no effective resistance . That's like entirely why F-14 the filmstar was allowed to bomb , because it would still have a future as an attack plane , meaning sales for some company so that the company in question could call on people in the darkness or whatever that America would not abandon the notion of nation states so please or whatever do not hurt the Serbians or their American allies and the whole scheme . Oh , uh ? Don't bother , America will never confess ...

america's next war was of course liberating Albanians , so that Kosova is a "state" that specializes in organ trafficking , while Albania proper is a country of more Benzes per capita then Germany , now that all those stolen cars can not be re-sold in the Western Europe where the Police forces are supposed to be organized . Molded the Russians into determination . Putin managed to win against the Chechens , who are like not easy at all . Not much of Western support , too , so that Putin could re-establish some sort of Sovietic control so that some Westernized country could not oblige the Turkics to at least minimum moral support when it was time for Kurds to be liberated as well . One of these days ı will mount an expedition to find the mass graves of 250 000 Albanian civilians evilly murdered by the Serbs so that America could create a precedent to bomb countries that oppress minorities . Oh , uh ? Don't bother , America surrendered the dear leader of the seperatists in the same year , creating the venue for Kemalism's last fling in charge to utterly break it in some economic crisis like immediately ...


there is like nothing left new under the sun to describe the hypocracy of Mankind . Let me try one . Hefner's was the first , he was practically pmping the models and the magazine was just a monthly catalogue of the wares ; blackmailing was available but happened rarely . Am pretty sure that you could still buy a whole DVD stack of the Grotto of the Playboy Mansion , where like the entire male part of Hollywood of yesteryears paraded , with like 80% knowing what was happening yet performing with vigour . Guccione acted on the premise that the former's models were just frigides and his catalogue proved it with the whole women body available to see , "it" being visible . Much hate between the camps and like models signed on for life . Flynt's used people straight from the "industry" and was obviously the reason for Guccione's to introduce males with "that" visible . So the distinctions were clear . Hefner's airbrushed it , Guccione's had it and that and Flynt's showed it and that in contact . Depending on the laws of the moment in Anglosphere , that might even be covered in black ink . Hefner's called the centerspread an equal , Flynt's used a word that might sound offensive to women , Guccione's was downright equal to a possession . As such Hefner called his imitiators lowlifes , despite owning a full pornographic business on the sidelines . Guccione defined Flynt as stuff and Hefner a hypocrite . While to Flynt both were prude losers and he was proud owner of stills that depicted Hefner in ways that would never be published in Hefner's . And yeah , he alone was the most leading in leading the Humanity .

which you all need to understand what comes in this paragraph . Hefner's came to Turkey through lawyers . Some publishing house in Santa Turgut's time had a "men's magazine" in which the photos were scissored off Hefner's and they went in to make that stop . Instead sold a license , because Santa Turgut's popularity to win elections in Turkey depended on enlarging the economy and the "Church" in the US would not much like that so it was a thunderous moment , a revolution , too . Guccione's came years later . Local edition of Hefner's was unhappy , despite the laws being tougher or something and Guccione's would never be able to show it , let alone that ... Guccione's editor , despite the facts , called his magazine the vanguard of culture , would liberate the whole country . Hence when the Flynt's showed up , the same editor called the newcomer suitable only for animals . Flynt's had some sarcastic editorial . Must remember these were licensed franchises of corporations abroad , they had to follow the laws . So , when European magazines arrived , each with a name that lasted only for two weeks (so that the courts could not even start a case for their closure) the very same editor of Flynt's had a piece on how he was the true progressive and all the new comers were indeed fit for animals . He could show it and that but never in contact . Even in black ink and the shining beacon of Humanity went under in months .. Barely surviving Hefner's and Guccione's . It's business and people generally do it for business and European mags were being sold under the counter long before and places like Konya were the top consumers . As the "discipline" of the prevalent Islamist movements would ban mere talk of flirting and stuff . It has been argued that the true reason for the strict laws banning depiction of women body was to condition the Youth to be sexually aroused by what even a male body could provide , but the guy is still laughing stock of the Turkish media . We have survived this only due to some Interior Minister finally flipping as the fantesies section of some European mag involved the "letter-writer" inviting his friends from the street to share his sister , you know , with him . Otherwise them European magazines might still be around as a Congregation ploy even , showing the Westerners were fit and willing to do anything while the local women were all cows . So , like we should be open to ideas that will make us Westerners , even if the the models were almost entirely East Europeans . This despite the availability of the web ...

you know , just about the right place about how a fifteen year old son of a MP from A-K-P sharing it on line that he and his friend trying to share a girl who was thinking to be "friend" to his friend alone . Or the brother of the spritual leader of the Congregation reputedly finding no offence to take advantage of some metally handicapped girl , in addition to 60 people or whatever , one of them naturally the nephew of the spiritual leader . Was covered up with gusto before the sides took on each other , had never heard about in 2010 or whatever ...

anyone burning with a desire to remind me of Kerch ? Why , am exactly on it . Putin is an accident , America finds it hard to face Iran on the battlefield , delegates it to our sunnier Sunni brothers . Who always prove to be wimps despite how one Keegan might categorise the thing . The West is manly and heroic , since Alexander the Great the West lines up and fights to death , last man standing like . East is flighty , it maneouvres and runs but will come back to kill only if everything is right and no palpable risk exists . You know , Iranians were utterly routed by Alexander , too . So , to make beardies heroic and willing to face the Turkish bayonet , led by officers carrying lightsabers , America willingly allows a mess in Iraq , with beardies getting a lust for blood , fighting those who can't fight back . Fighting same mindset for millenia , Iranians intervene and some explosively formed projectile goes through some Abrams . Not as famously , it will also take the legs off some British tank driver in Afghanistan as learned from CFC . Will be declared as Russian , as no towelh_ad can do that . Russians are also talking stuff , are betraying their task of keeping us Turks off the Turkics , mostly Azeri and Turkmenistan's natural gas-fields . By selling gas to Europe and oppressing or something the Saudis and the new coming Qataris . Hence Georgia . Oh uh , did you see ı have not lost track of where ı was ? Simply because Bush I saw the dissolution of the Soviet Evil Empire with the Soviet Foreign Minister becoming the Georgian President , Bush II has completed his allotted task of ruining the American Treasury with juicy contracts to all sorts of people that support the cause , Dabya looks at the possibilities . Saakashvili , the greatest Georgian evah , promises to eat his tie on live TV if he can't beat the two bit Russians ...


not white washing Russians , whose great times were invariably about throwing baby citizens of the Ottoman Empire in the air to watch them fall onto spears or triangular bayonets , nor even denying Ottomans did it , too .

no discussion of who is more right about the Ossetian issue but Georgians attacked Russians , didn't they ? Russians after the typical slow start beat the Georgians back , didn't they ? Georgians typically applied the Western way of war and showed a picture of an American F-15 and declared help was on the way , didn't they ? Help was not on the way , so Saakashvili went to tour the battlefields where the Russians were like assured to be 100 miles away and declared evil Russian helicopters were trying to assassinate him so his body guards piled kevlar plates on him , with disbelief on their faces , too . You know , Russian helicopter launched missiles can penetrate only 5.3 milimeters of steel , only if it has also been rusting out in the open for the previous 20 years . Actually the whole r16 fame on the web starts with some post elsewhere a couple of days before the thing , for which ı was called a clunk . Nothing fancy , involves HMS Coventry failing to use its onboard dazzling / eyeburner lazer to effect when that A-4 flight showed up in 1982 . Saakashvili was still not punished for providing so easy a victory to the ancient enemies , even if we Turks are still alive only because of that Russian victory . Ergenekon Conspiracy heating up , we should have seen that even Russia could not protect us against America . Certainly not when they were defeated by mere Georgians . Whose best troops had to be flown in post haste from Iraq to save their capital . Saakashvili was even rewarded with Odessa , as a mayor , because he was an hero against the Russian oppression . Poor Poroshenko failed to find open arms , because stupid American ancients failed to inform him that Ukranian girls would still be awesome if he went away or he didn't and otherwise there was like no interest in any colour revolution and made a show of punishing Saakasvili . Who didn't even have to bite his tie this time !


oh , inevitably the time to inform you people of what ı have seen on TV ! A documentary about the Little Fascist of Budapest , Viktor Orban by the name . Now , my favourite Hungarian mech driver is flimsy , not many muscles and the like . While the visible section of the New Hungary is much built up , with this guy interviewed . He can't speak English with the Al Crusading crew and he needs a translator to tell the audience that Hitler's programme was the right thing . New Hungary then shows up its section that can speak English . Kids that my favourite Hungarian mech driver can slap with ease , even if ı would have to be in the area . The kids tell a 70% of their movement is composed of full idiots ... Then go out on a vigilante patrol at night where they might catch some drunkard relieving himself on the pavement , or gays , or even a couple too cozy in each other's arms in the street . Like not one moment of belief in me that the kids will scare the filth of their city , the fear will only be about the 70% , those full idiots whose arms are thicker than my torso . My favourite Hungarian mech driver would need to be in the mech to topple them , like obviously .


then it becomes a discussion of Soros . Because my favourite Hungarian mech driver doesn't have the brains and the like to discuss conspiracies or political landscape anywhere ı was surprised to hear the name was pronounced as sho-ross or something . The guy was the hero of the West , funding whenever some former Soviet Republic had to rebel against the evil yoke of devil Moscow . Now ? Because Merkel needs to look progressive , the Little Fascist of Budapest gets the allotted task of stopping the refugees at the border , hits on the idea that he is the sole defender of Christianity and immediately picks on an Hungarian Jew , because that never fails . Just recommended to know that Soros also funded A-K-P programmes and the like and the head of some foundation whom the PM accuses to be the organizing cabal behind the Gezi Events is the brother-in-law of a journalist that supports A-K-P , the journalist being a man of all times / parties / goverments .


confused ? You ought not to . The world is a complex place , where no one can rule its entirity . There are conflicting interests , as Merkel fumes that she faked her delay to Argentinian Summit because she didn't want to irritate the idiot who will become the next Saudi King , while Macron berated the Clown Prince Mega BS for easy credits ! Nobody would have doubted May would be willing to meet the Saudis , but Trump was out , too ... Putin's friendliness makes far more sense if you were able to see Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu in the background ... That's the foreign affairs secretary of the palace cabinet and real unhappy at the Russian move at the High Five ... In case the CFC is not aware , New Turkey was allotted the task of saving beardies in the Idlip Province by stopping the one-before-the-last-operation . By promising it would disarm the beardies and take them as refugees . Beardies are State Department's people , despite them being like so unlike Heather Nauert , the spokesperson of the said institution . The last operation on the other hand will be against Kurds of Syria , who are Pentagon's people . Americans will bomb Russians and Iranians a couple of times , the gods of war will surprisingly bolt , American bases will be over-run . Yet another nail in the coffin of 'stan . Which America desperately seeks out to start a Civil War in this country ...

hence American attempts to destroy the Straits Regime of 1936 has nothing to do with Russian Aggression , which Americans practically forced on Russia . American ships in the Black Sea do not intend to protect us from the Russians , nor they are of the size that would be enough to convince the Russians that America would be able to protect Russia from us . In the end it's just about creating a fact on the ground , like they will help Georgians in the next round . In which they will naturally not do . Or giving Armenians false hopes that they are just outta there , with Trabzon inevitably being dandied about as the Armenian port city , this despite Kurds are still unable to reach the Mediterranean which they need for a pipeline . This despite New Turkey or the Saudis shooting down a Russian jet ; because the ground fighting then involved securing a solid front starting down Hatay , as New Turkey seems unable to break the Turkish will to deny Kurds their place under the sun and the pipeline will not go through Hatay . New Turkey was indeed anti-Kurdish at the time , but ain't that just politics ? See , just last week's stuff . Years back , the Goverment decided to remove T.C. from the names of institutions , the shorthand form of Türkiye Cumhuriyeti which then becomes the Republic of Turkey . Almost racist are loud , talking treason and the whole lot . Years pass , water flows under the bridge and the splinter group from the almost racists want a parliamentary commission to investigate or even bring it back . So , in the parliament , IP votes Yes , CHP votes Yes . Almost racists remain Neutral , because the traitorous IP offers it . The political branch of the seperatist remain Neutral as the word implies not the Turkish Republic but the Republic that rules over the geographic area that's commonly known as Turkey . A-K-P says No ... ı don't know , maybe because New Turkey is a future Arabian country and no , that's not as funny as you might think .

summary : Because sheer inaptitude of proxies , the glorious American plans to change borders of like 28 countries and totally wipe out one demonic race have gone awry . They accused Russians of secretly masterminding all that so they pushed Ukranians to "rebel" , despite agreements of long standing stature that was once supposed to become the groundwork for an Eastern European Union , of equal opportunities for all , which America has been betraying since 1988 as a signature owner , you know , if the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics ever came to dissolving itself or whatever . Russians have long been wary of TV wars where a little soldiering creates lots of TV coverage . So they took the American way of warfare and like applied with impressive success in taking Crimea . Americans are now copying Russian ranting on the 21st Century Warfare and ranting against Russians ... Yet where Ukranians fought back , as in Donbass , the success wasn't as clear cut , even if Ukranian Nazism lost a bit of fame , which can only be a good thing . Russians do not want an Afghanistan debacle on their Western borders as well , so they made a deal with America to stop Iranians in Syria . Which they have so far succeeded in fighting a TV war and doing quite allright for themselves and just somewhat allright for Mankind . Russians have finally found the courage that they will respond or something if they lose another airliner for "minor" gains as well , a thing which is yet to be seen . America is unhappy with all that , their hand picked Clown Prince even has to act deferential to Macron , can you believe that ? So the game returns back to Ukraine . Incredibly important for any Risk player , too , have it and to defend Asia , you got to hold it and MiddleEast ...

in fact there is no need for all this hypocracy at all . Want a piece of the Turk , come and take it . There is no need for America citing Russian aggression and a need to show some solidarity with Black Sea NATO members . Only because Bulgaria must police its airspace , it is buying 24 F-16s , with its pilots assured of F-22 support as the Greek F-16s will be busy over the Aegean , and not against Flankers . (Will not confirm whether ı personally bought Su-35 "triplanes" to keep Sukhoi afloat , like 200 strong ...) If there needs to be modern warships in the Black Sea just sell some destroyers to the Romanians and Bulgarians , so easy , right ?


uh oh , of course not . It's New Turkey , which is so heroically heroic that Americans have flared this crisis to distract New Turkey from hydrocarbon affairs off Cyprus . There might be those who remember some Italian drilling ship was scared off with exercises . American - Qatari partnership does the same , some heroic talk , with not a single word at the Qatari betrayal , too . Instead some victim of the Ergenekon conspiracy appears on TV a fortnight ago or so to announce New Turkey might get a new military base in Kuwait , you know , which might then impress some dynosaurs who are runnning to become 80s these days , America fervently hoping them to die of natural causes , so that they can come and kill us all . Simply the lack of opportunity , only those almost 80s have shown which side of the Turkish rifle goes to shoulder and which side points at the Americans . This will be offensive ? It's like meant to be or something , for obviously America can always nuke us or something when we sink their entire Navy and pour them into the Atlantic and chase into the Rockies , too . Senseless ? Almost as much as the New Turkey media ... Remember Hefner's ? The editor guy who offered to start the licensed Turkish edition still writes in a Party newspaper , say , as columnist A . So , another Party newspaper has a column in which the columnist B peddles a bed , on which he slept one night and his backpain simply vanished . A attacks a ferocious attack , that this is not journalism ! B can only say A has been doing the same exact thing for a different brand of bed and B had unfortunately had named his bed as superior and cheaper to A's ... In the end , they all follow Party line . Party should choose which bed and that be all ; just like they can also make Montrö vanish ...



summary of summary : When are we going to fight , in the 24th Century ?
 
no discussion of who is more right about the Ossetian issue but Georgians attacked Russians , didn't they ? Russians after the typical slow start beat the Georgians back , didn't they ? Georgians typically applied the Western way of war and showed a picture of an American F-15 and declared help was on the way , didn't they ?
CNN showed the footage of Georgian artillery shelling Tskhinval, with bottom line inscription "Russia attacks Georgia". I doubt that was merely a mistake.
And these people call Russian TV a propaganda.
 
For starters sorry for my English,

I can't belive people still defend Russia, you know that Russia showed bombing of Gori on their federal channels as Georgian offensive of Tskhinvali? their Iskander killed many civilians including Dutch journalist (Russia denies this fact till this day)
https://www.unian.info/world/136959-dutch-journalist-killed-in-russian-bombing-of-gori.html

Comparing CNN to Russian state owned TV channels like Russia Today, Rosya 24 and other crap, how to say it, is just plain dumb.

I advise you to get the information about the war yourself instead of repeating exact propaganda lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-Georgian_War
(if you know russian)

I can list many sources if you're interested, i don't have much time now
 
I advise you to get the information about the war yourself instead of repeating exact propaganda lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-Georgian_War
(if you know russian)
Erm, a journalist asks Putin whether Russia had a plan to respond to Georgian aggression against S.Ossetia.
Putin replies that yes, we had that plan in advance and acted upon it in 2008.
Kinda obvious answer to stupid question. Georgia also prepared their attack in advance.

The fact that Russia bombed military objects in Gori has nothing to do with the question of responsibility for starting a war. It happened after Georgian attack on Tskhinvali.
 
Putin clearly says that they were preparing "Rebels" for the conflict
The fact that Russia bombed military objects in Gori has nothing to do with the question of responsibility for starting a war. It happened after Georgian attack on Tskhinvali.
Erm, what kind of military objects? can you provide sources? appartment buildings were bombed and there was a peacfull protest
if you don't want to listen please just say so and you'll save a lot of time for both of us

Facts
1) couple of years before the war Russia gave out passports in Tskhinvali region
2) Russia evacuated the city before the fighting started
3) conflict started with blowing of a police car in the Tskhinvali region and then shelling of the Georgian villages by "Rebels" (mercs), Goverment rightfully choose to take military action
4) "peacekeeping battalion" were correcting artillery fire for the rebels
5) everything was happening in Georgian borders, which Russia recognised at the time of conflict
6) Russia intervened in the conflict with casus belli: protecting our citizens (see first fact)
 

Russian TV: there is a secret laboratory in Georgia, which specialises in biological weapons, device shown will transfer mosquito colonies to bite ethnic Russians

:) quality news reporting if you ask me
sadly Russia today looks very much like north Korea
 
Putin clearly says that they were preparing "Rebels" for the conflict
Yes. Russia was expecting Georgia to take military action against Ossetia. Saakashvili already restored control of Adjaria and Kodori gorge in previous years, S.Ossetia was the next.
Should I remind about civil war in 90-s and why Georgia lost control of Ossetia and Abkhazia in the first place?

I'm not saying Russia is 100% right in this conflict - it's quite aggressive in protecting its interests in the area. But it was Saakashvili who started the war in 2008. He thought using military force as an argument against Russia can be a good idea. It was bad idea.

Erm, what kind of military objects? can you provide sources? appartment buildings were bombed and there was a peacfull protest
"Gori is a strategic city in central Georgia,[4] about 25 km (16 mi) from Tskhinvali.[5] Gori is a major military installation and transportation hub in Georgia.[6]75 tanks and armored personnel carriers (a third of the Georgian military's arsenal) were assembled near Gori on 7 August.[7]
Around 6:27 AM on 9 August 2008, Reuters reported that two Russian fighters had bombed a Georgian artillery position about 10 km north of Gori.[8][9] On 9 August, a Russian air attack targeted military barracks in Gori. In the resulting explosion, besides the base, several apartment buildings and a school were also damaged.[10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Gori

Military barracks was a legitimate target during a war.

1) couple of years before the war Russia gave out passports in Tskhinvali region
2) Russia evacuated the city before the fighting started
3) conflict started with blowing of a police car in the Tskhinvali region and then shelling of the Georgian villages by "Rebels" (mercs), Goverment rightfully choose to take military action
4) "peacekeeping battalion" were correcting artillery fire for the rebels
5) everything was happening in Georgian borders, which Russia recognised at the time of conflict
6) Russia intervened in the conflict with casus belli: protecting our citizens (see first fact)
Before war, there were provocations and occasional shelling from both sides, as anyone might expect in the region of ethnic conflict. War started with carefully planned attack from Georgian side, timed so that Putin will be out of Russia, on Olympic games opening ceremony. Russia actually warned Georgia that it will respond to attack, put 58-th army in combat readiness. Saakashvili thought it was a bluffing.


Russian TV: there is a secret laboratory in Georgia, which specialises in biological weapons, device shown will transfer mosquito colonies to bite ethnic Russians

:) quality news reporting if you ask me
sadly Russia today looks very much like north Korea
The idea that USA may be using Georgian laboratory for development of biological weapons doesn't seem all that crazy to me.
The report doesn't say anything about "bite ethnic Russians", by the way. It was your creative interpretation.
 
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About indiscriminate attacks against civilians - this is how Georgian army entered Tskhinvali:
 
Another wonderful legacy of stalin's border adjustments(lumping the two enclaves with georgia for "administration purposes"). Once again, just another mess caused by the collapse of the USSR without border adjustments.....
 
I'm not saying Russia is 100% right in this conflict - it's quite aggressive in protecting its interests in the area. But it was Saakashvili who started the war in 2008. He thought using military force as an argument against Russia can be a good idea. It was bad idea.
Russia can protect their interest, it's their right,even by using the military force, but then there are war crimes: bombing appartments in Gori (even if it was accidental, Russia still denies the fact), burning houses of Georgian residents (you can even see it on google maps), torturing captives (I don't want to post the video here), looting etc.
Before war, there were provocations and occasional shelling from both sides, as anyone might expect in the region of ethnic conflict. War started with carefully planned attack from Georgian side, timed so that Putin will be out of Russia, on Olympic games opening ceremony. Russia actually warned Georgia that it will respond to attack, put 58-th army in combat readiness. Saakashvili thought it was a bluffing.
did you read the wiki article i provided?, as you can see is it carefully sourced.
I don't get what Putin leavingfor he olympics has to do any of it, would he lead the charge on Tbilisi himself :)?
I stated my facts it's your job to nullify them not just procede by saying there were provocations and occasional shelling from both sides
 
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About indiscriminate attacks against civilians - this is how Georgian army entered Tskhinvali:
report i provided clearly states that "Rebels" would hide in appartment and civillian building, Tskhinvali was evacuated at that time, civillian casualties were by cluster bombs both side used, difference is that Georgian side recognised their mistake, what Russia never did
 
I don't get what Putin leavingfor he olympics has to do any of it, would he lead the charge on Tbilisi himself :)?
Decision to engage in military conflict can't be made without commander in chief.

I stated my facts it's your job to nullify them
Convenient position. I stated my facts, that the conflict started in 1990-s, when Georgia got independence from USSR but didn't allow Ossetians to secede.
 
The idea that USA may be using Georgian laboratory for development of biological weapons doesn't seem all that crazy to me.The report doesn't say anything about "bite ethnic Russians", by the way. It was your creative interpretation.

found a better one, are you serious or you're just trolling me, you people really belive this storyes?
guy says this lab is super secret and all and he's been there asked the working personal and they told they were making weapons, he proceeds by saying he has no proof about this but urges us to trust his words :) am I making this up?
biting ethnic Russian were in other part I can't seem to find it, then again they were talking about this for a month
 
oh please "they were sitting in the cafe and suddenly bombs fell" that's a damn lie, Amanda speaks fluent english with no accent interestingly, and then Laura proceeds in long political comment.
I've heard those stories many times same thing you guys do with Ukraine, federal televisions show actors telling their story on how Ukranian nazis ate their Russian speaking babie or ludicrous things like that
 
found a better one, are you serious or you're just trolling me, you people really belive this storyes?
Both Russia and USA possess biological weapons, as far as I know. I wouldn't be surprised if they use foreign laboratories for development. What's so crazy about it?

Amanda speaks fluent english with no accent interestingly
She lives near San Francisco. It's quite understandable that she knows English well.
 
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