King of the hill - open challange for all playlevels

[Yenish]

@Sun
I don't think it is possible to pop gems from mines, the random events are disabled.

@ABCFan
I know how powerful the EE is, I won a game with no library nor university, that was much fun. I'll retry it to see if I can do better.
In my last game, I had cuirraser when stalin came with only macemen. What a noob. Too bad I only had 2 cuirrassers...

 

[mzprox]

@Sun
I don't think it is possible to pop gems from mines, the random events are disabled.

I got silver in one of my mines, but it was later in the game so didnt help too much.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

@ABCF - Ironically, Open Borders make EE even better.

@Yenish - resources from mines are random, but they are not a "BtS Random Event". TBH I'm not sure it's even possible to turn them off outside a mod.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

To 1280 AD

Spoiler :

No AI has Education or Astronomy yet, but Ragnar has Chemistry, and Stalin has contacted everyone.

I have a GG available, with MA up Rome will be able to produce 1 cannon or grenadier per turn. The 1,000,000 $ question is: how many of them I need to stop Stalin?

 

[mzprox]

@Unconquered Sun, some nice openier saves you have there, but i wonder if someone could make even better ones, what i have in my mind:

Spoiler :

I still don't see this game as a winable one, but i'm thinking of the possibility of this start as the best opener:

-build the GW for spy economy or the pyramids for early representation
-Raze Ulundi and put a city, or better yet a fort on that choking hill (with a city one tile north of it). The overkill would be if someone would get a jungle spread on that hill and manage to build a fort on it
-and of course the earlier is the better

I will try to make this, not sure if its possible...

 

[Snaaty]

@ mzprox:

What you described in your spoiler, I did in my game

You might be interested in taking a look at my 1500 AD save, which I posted earlier,in post 95 to be precise. Might be an interesting point to play on, because it´s shortly before Stalin invades and 1 turns short of our own invasion into the south with a massive army gathered and a small techlead, having cannons on everybody (70 units near front + 10 on the way)

Spoiler :

But I didnt do an earyl rush, because I still dont know if this is the most effective... ...a nice blocking city worked wonders for me, then I pushed the Zulu back slowly with the expert units I got from killing hundreds of enemies in said blocking city and first catas, later trebs, taking Ulundi for the first time in 600 AD, then loosing it to Mongols (which was actually good, because Zulu culture was gone and I could build the city you described, 1 near the montain passage and then blocked with a fort)
Then I stole techs from the Mongols in Ulundi, because the Zulu were more or less out of the game after loosing their capital.

If we can now do a two front war, pushing our landfront further in my game (we already took 4 cities behind the mountainpass) and still hold off Stalin, who just landed with 38!!!! gallons, we might, we might have a slight chance of...

 

[Snaaty]

@ USun:

impressive play, as usual. If I got it right, you have Cannons and MilScience?

Spoiler :

Funny enough, I had lib about the same time, with the same chloices (steel or nationalism), by going down the EE while you did a SE if I´m not mistaken?

But I then decided to take nationalism, to get the Taj (had a GE) and to switch to nationhood for the 25% bonus on EE and selfresearched Steel. My army for invading the south was ready in 1500 AD, about 70 units strong, grens and cannons and some older stuff.

Reading what others said about stalin, he will come between 1500 AD and 1650 AD. It´s actually better, if he comes earlier, because then he only brings maces and knights and less gallons (about 30), later it gets really ugly (50 gallons with curassiers and grens). In my game he came in 1560 with curassiers, maces and trebs, 38 gallons)

If your able to draft, you can easily stop his early invasion with drafted muskets and cannons, the later one only with drafted rifles and cannons...

Dont try to engage in naval battle, you wont make it...

 

[mzprox]

Spoiler :

I had a nice blocking city on a hill below the corn (as many of you had), but sometimes they just sent an army north at the west side so i had to have a second frontier. Having a single choking point could save lots of money-and the earlier the better.
My play was to get machineguns by 1500 AD in which i have succed... the problem was that Stalin arrived in 1340 so i had to make a third front.

"we might, we might have a slight chance of..."

of what? The possibility of invading Russia seems very far to me
Without that we cant win the space race.. Stalin gets there in 1900 i cant see how we could beat him. The only option remained is cultural win, but also i dont think it's possible.

 

[budweiser]

The only option remained is cultural win, but also i dont think it's possible.

Spoiler :

One thing you know is how long you have, like to 1500AD before Stalin arrives. You only need to use three cities to get to legendary. Use a wonder spam city with artist wonders, an artist GP farm or two(maybe with rep), then bomb your cities up. You might have enough time to win. Consider how a high culture city will take land from an AI.

 

[Snaaty]

@ mzprox:

Spoiler :

I´m eying more on a space win

Allowing Stalin to take 1 city near the capital and you can steal all his techs for next to nothing, with a discount of 70%+ compared to beakers with your state reli present in this city + 50% stationary bonus and enough spypoints invested (the more the better).

By constantly attacking said city, you can also prevent Stalin from building ANY buildings, because he will ALWAYS try to build a second defender

So you can tech the techs he doesnt research (you shold see his research pretty soon with all spypoints on him) and steal his techs, which should result in us teching faster then he ever can

Problem is only to kill all other AI on our conti to take all their cities, which we def. need...

Have a look at my 1500 AD save, we got all wonders working conti-wide (Ankore, SpiralM and so on), and these missing we can take from Ragnar (I still have hopes he will build Statue of Lib), so beefed by all the wonders I guess there are small chances to go sucessfull space IF we manage to clear off our whole conti...

 

[Unconquered Sun]

@Snaaty

Spoiler :

@ USun:

impressive play, as usual. If I got it right, you have Cannons and MilScience?


Funny enough, I had lib about the same time, with the same chloices (steel or nationalism), by going down the EE while you did a SE if I´m not mistaken?

I have cannons and MilScience is due in several turns.

I run a CE however (albeit with a strong GP farm) and I'm not planning on researching Nationalism. Without Nationalism I can use GMs for Replaceable Parts and Railroad.


Seems like you have winning chance in your game?

 

[Unconquered Sun]

One thing you know is how long you have, like to 1500AD before Stalin arrives. You only need to use three cities to get to legendary. Use a wonder spam city with artist wonders, an artist GP farm or two(maybe with rep), then bomb your cities up. You might have enough time to win. Consider how a high culture city will take land from an AI.

That's unlikely. On HoF, 1500 AD normal speed culture win is easily doable, but under the circumstances in this game I don't see it happening.

 

[mzprox]

Spoiler :

Hmm lets allow the Khan to pass our defense with a few keshiks, let them take a city close to our capital and then choke it (putting soldiers around it and always kill the new defenders except the last one. it may work, we just have to be carefull not to flip it by culture. Having a religion is a must for this.
so early objectives:
-building the GW
-Destroying Ulundi
-getting a religion
-building a choking fort/city on the hill
-allowing them to capture a single city close to our capital and stealing everything from there

I think conquering the whole continent is too costly, probably not worth it.

The problem is that we cant win the space-race without tech advantage.. i saw how Stalin builded his ship...as soon as something become avaible he finished it .

 

[Unconquered Sun]

of what? The possibility of invading Russia seems very far to me
Without that we cant win the space race.. Stalin gets there in 1900 i cant see how we could beat him. The only option remained is cultural win, but also i dont think it's possible.

Invading Russia is possible in a game with a hill/jungle/fort that's easy to keep and bulbing the Astronomy line. The idea would be to interfere as much as possible in Russia's development, while holding off the others with minimum resources invested.

 

[zizzeus]

You can pop gems, I was lucky enough to get it in my second city (SE on hills, coastal - they popped on a coastal hills). Needless to say, that was a nice happiness benefit with the forges.

Other than that, I've made the emperor checkpoint but am in no position to win. I may last until the Immortal date, will know once I finish it. I've restarted 3 times, each time going for the Great Wall opening, simply because I thought it would be fun to stockpile so many GGs. It was fun, but I don't think it was optimal. A better choke, more cities, or the Oracle would probably be better. Plus, those barbs aren't much to worry about when it's ax vs. warrior or praet vs. archer.

Very fun game though! Thanks for hosting.

z

 

[Halt]

Snaatty - Your save is amazing. So many wonders

Spoiler :

I was stunned to see the Oracle in a city other than your capital. I know it is a captured city. But still quite amazing

 

[Phil725]

@ mzprox

Spoiler :

The EE should be easier to set up than you described there. IIRC a city that you once owned will never culture flip back to you, so the only possible problem isn't actually a concern. Just settle a city 3 tiles away from your capital and then let someone take it. That should net you the highest discount for espionage possible. Just make sure to get your religion in there first.

Your capital and other cities will keep your culture >95% in the city for a bigger discount. Also, if you keep them with only 1 defender in the city, it will revolt constantly, and they won't be able to build much anyway.

 

[reverend oats]

I find this thread:

->->->->

 

[Snaaty]

Quote from Halt:
I was stunned to see the Oracle in a city other than your capital. I know it is a captured city. But still quite amazing

No, I built that city with first settler

 

[Snaaty]

Small update form my game:

Spoiler :

Stalins main invasion force got crushed... ...it took 3 turns because he had so many units:
View attachment 211539
Here we will steal techs forever now

But there are problems now on the lower front in ex Zululand, because we now get attacked from 2 sides:... ...Stalin smuggled in another stack of 20 units... ...incredible how many ships he has. But thanks to our SoLs, we are defending our shores fine, no pillaging frigattes get through. But sinking gallons isnt possible, because they only appear in stacks 10+
View attachment 211540
Guess we will just give up the city and take it back in a few turns. We need to regroup and heal after the Stalin massacre first