King of the hill - open challange for all playlevels

[Snaaty]

As promised, 1700 AD save and some pics:

Spoiler :

western seas are tight under our controll
View attachment 211800

estern seas... ...well... ...not...
View attachment 211802
But we managed to sink all gallons execpt of 2, but now fleet is hiding to heal. good news is that stalin usually doesnt bring a second wave, after his men and gallons are sunk for 5 turns or so

...

siege on ragnars capital:
View attachment 211801
we will make it, but killing 10 elite infs will be superbäh with the units we have, and I couldnt force myself to suicide our precious units, so I stopped here. plan is to continue the crusade through viking land, because he simply is too dangerous techwise, the others arent. if everything works out, we can steal physiks or, if he researches it in time, railroads in 3 turns from Stalin

Statue of liberty in 13 turns. And except of Ragnar, no one is having Democracy so far, and I guess Ragnar is having better things to build right now then said statue... ...and IF he builds it, even better, then we get it AND money, which we really need now, because we are running broke... ...having a huge army on enemy soil and having your own population whipped and drafted into oblivion is sort of counterproductive economy-wise

EDITH:
I somehow messed up when selecting, renaming and deleting pictures. Thought I had a screen 1700 AD, with our army next to ragnars capital... ...wrong... ...so just imagine us running around with a really big stack, ranging from slightly outdated (rifles, cannons) to REALLY outdated (eles, praets)

 

[Snaaty]

@ Pohjalainen:
Doesnt matter when you started/joined, this is ment as a fungame for all playlevels, the more players, the better

...

I will update the scorelist in the firstpost once some more new results are in

 

[Dirk1302]

@Duckweed,

Spoiler :

Zulu archers never were the problem, i was handling zulu metal along from 1800 bc on, now a wood 3 axe is just worse against a c1 zulu axe on attack , the situation you sketched just wasn't happening in my game.

Second, if you sealed with jungle hill 1000 bc you may not have noticed but Dhenghis comes with keshiks ~ 1000 bc, what would you prefer now, axes or praets? I disagreed on this with you earlier before starting on this but on the whole the flexibility/attack power/resilience on defence makes 1 praet worth approx 2 axes imo. Without the seal in the south you'll just get a lot of units thrown at you, no matter how strong you are, you'll need good units to deal with this.

- What problem is solved by confu exactly? I built captured key cities early so no culture problem there. Happiness is less of a problem with mc or col, mc gives you +2 from silver gold, col +2 from rel, temple. Mc gets you a forge which is pretty crucial imo. But... As you said you whipped the capital, i thought of doing that and it can work out but you have to build a granary and time very precise to take advantage, you probably lose a plain hill for 10 turns and maybe some other tile for some time for grow back. Whip is 60 so i think i can MM indeed to take advantage, i actually thought of doing that but since i'm still in the fiddling around stage (let's face it, even with planning this is difficult enough) i was lazy. This has nothing to do with col or mc happiness, that forge is just outstanding, i don't think col can beat that. But indeed Col gives you courthouses early, still these are expensive and the timeline is rather tight.I don't think col fits in that early since libraries/scientists are more important first. Of course courthouses are handy next but just as in a more ordinary game i like to get in the forges in first to have a cheaper whip on the courthouses. My empire 1 AD isn't so big anyway that i'd profit enormously from courthouses. A Forum in capital would do a much better job. Wealth enhanced by forges helps a lot too.

CS is tremendously important on this map, but it's researching this expensive tech itself and not it's preq col that is the problem here though.

Edit: read again, but the supply issue only becomes a (big) problem if you try to hold the south on three jungles without a city there, the way i played my next set i didn't have supply issues.

 

[Halt]

I guess I am really a Mon/Emp player, Monarch is easy and Emperor is a 40% win rate.

Well tried the religion approach

Spoiler :

I did get Theo, mono, poly, Conf (can get Divine in a latter save, provided the save getting Theology) Ragnar grabbed Taoism as predicted. However my game is now at 920AD looks like it is starting to wind down as I failed to get Maceman on the Jungle Hill (enough) in time to counter Khan and Ragnar Maceman.

I do refuse to give up. Time for a fresh start

I tried the overboard religion approach, not sure what having all those religious buildings buy me if instead I focused more on units or building research etc... I know I can from a new startup get Mono and bulb Theology with a priest using Oracle to grab MC or Conf maybe that is better? Building AP, Sankore, Tower, for the bonuses might be worth it.

To those playing and doing well.... You know who you are... Assuming I have read all the posts (which I have) if you were going to provide "key tips" during the stages of the game what would they be? For example; how quickly to build settlers, GP tips, how important a priority is Civil Service (it looks to be high), when do you NOT bulb your GP (first GS goes to Academy I assume).

Also has anyone found archers/LB/XB useful at all on the "Jungle Hill"?

This is still a load of fun!

 

[Halt]

A couple of repeatable BIG spoilers

Spoiler :

To always get Jungle on hill
To always get Jungle on the hill each time, move your starting Warrior to the west over the gold mine to the south, then head straight south "IMPORTANT" do not go east or west even though auto move will take you that direction, if you head stratight south the jungle is always n the hill.

To always get Hinduism
1st do Jungle on Hill, next research Agri,BW,Wheel,Myst,Poly, build worker, warrior, barracks until pop three switch to 2nd worker.

To always get Judaism
1st do Jungle on Hill and Hinduism, then tech Preisthood, writing, Masonary,Monotheism (note if you tech masonary before preisthood etc... you will not get the religion). I am not sure the builds matter mine were always Barracks, axeman until Oracle then oracle Then settler.

Yes ... yes I have too much time on my hands! But still need to play better to win this thing.

 

[Halt]

1st I have attached my 920AD save (with the 4 religions I got). I still have the Jungle Hill to the south with a good number of Prats but the writing is now on the wall, tech'd too slow think my religions were a distraction.

To improve my score

Spoiler :

1. I think I will try my best to take out Ulindi early, place a blocking city one north of the Jungle Hill and place a fort with prats on that hill. Or.. is the city on the hill better? I am mixed on this. I am fairly certain this will not allow me to take any early wonder other than Oracle (no GW or Pyramids due to many early axeman).

2. Need to get better on teching and economy issues - I am not teching as fast as Snaaty and Unsun need to improve on this. Any tips appreciated.

3. Expand faster. More cities faster. I need to populate my area ASAP.

4. Religion take only one (hehe) also make sure to take one. Unsun's game is amazing with no religion.

5. Stop posting on the forum and play more civ!

 

[Pohjalainen]

Even I'm far from Deity the game was fun to play and I might give it another shot when I have some time.

I think these settings can really help to understand how you should build your empire in hostile environment and you don't have to be so afraid of early war even if it's not something you planned. After this I think I have the courage to go back to my another game where I'm stuck to a small continent with Shaka, Stalin and Bismarck

A thought what I do differently when I play this again.

Spoiler :

Now that I have read your spoilers it seems obvious that I should have been more aggressive and try to block those other civs using the magnicifent bottleneck formation which connected the two landmasses on the continent. Defence could be built to stop the attacks on that one spot and doesn't have to spread army to several cities which is pretty much hopeless attempt.

 

[Snaaty]

Here´s a tip for those having problems holding the hill:

Lb´s are the answer

Forget about maces, beeline lbs. At least this is what I did and what worked fine in all my AW games. Promote them guerilla, and after you have captured or razed the Zulu capital (for me, capturing and loosing it to someone NOT ZULU worked fine to continue stealing cheap techs) build a fort there and promote your lb´s CG + guerilla. Stack 20+ units there to reduce collateral and you´re invincible until grens + curassiers, although a CG 3 guerilla 2 lb yoalso is more or less invincible against a gren or curassier without heaps of siege (total def bonus is something like 250% which is about 20). I had 8 lbs there and only replaced losses (which were very few) and some older crap. Held everything...

 

[Unconquered Sun]

@Dirk

Spoiler :

I had a lot of praets at any given time. The jungle defense line was an emergency strategy after my conquer-1-AI attempt failed. I was left with a lot of units, added more and a Medic III, about ~8 units per tile most of the time I guess. Even at that many units occasionally I had to group them together for very large AI stacks, when the AI is very strong it won't try to spearhead to a city but give battle.

Longbows on the hill are a better option in general, unless you play Halt's "jungle" sequence, holding a jungle/hill can be done either way.

 

[Duckweed]

@Duckweed,

Spoiler :

Zulu archers never were the problem, i was handling zulu metal along from 1800 bc on, now a wood 3 axe is just worse against a c1 zulu axe on attack , the situation you sketched just wasn't happening in my game.

Second, if you sealed with jungle hill 1000 bc you may not have noticed but Dhenghis comes with keshiks ~ 1000 bc, what would you prefer now, axes or praets? I disagreed on this with you earlier before starting on this but on the whole the flexibility/attack power/resilience on defence makes 1 praet worth approx 2 axes imo. Without the seal in the south you'll just get a lot of units thrown at you, no matter how strong you are, you'll need good units to deal with this.

- What problem is solved by confu exactly? I built captured key cities early so no culture problem there. Happiness is less of a problem with mc or col, mc gives you +2 from silver gold, col +2 from rel, temple. Mc gets you a forge which is pretty crucial imo. But... As you said you whipped the capital, i thought of doing that and it can work out but you have to build a granary and time very precise to take advantage, you probably lose a plain hill for 10 turns and maybe some other tile for some time for grow back. Whip is 60 so i think i can MM indeed to take advantage, i actually thought of doing that but since i'm still in the fiddling around stage (let's face it, even with planning this is difficult enough) i was lazy. This has nothing to do with col or mc happiness, that forge is just outstanding, i don't think col can beat that. But indeed Col gives you courthouses early, still these are expensive and the timeline is rather tight.I don't think col fits in that early since libraries/scientists are more important first. Of course courthouses are handy next but just as in a more ordinary game i like to get in the forges in first to have a cheaper whip on the courthouses. My empire 1 AD isn't so big anyway that i'd profit enormously from courthouses. A Forum in capital would do a much better job. Wealth enhanced by forges helps a lot too.

CS is tremendously important on this map, but it's researching this expensive tech itself and not it's preq col that is the problem here though.

Edit: read again, but the supply issue only becomes a (big) problem if you try to hold the south on three jungles without a city there, the way i played my next set i didn't have supply issues.

Spoiler :

Why do you want to attack Shaka's SOD, three WoodIII Axes absorb 10 units attack easily.

I complete IW 4 turns after Oracle, Before that I even build a spear to help my Axes to counter Char. So hold on GK's early SOD is not a problem with >5 WoodIII Axes+1spear. After that just build enough prats. So I have prats ready at the choking point at ~1000BC.

CoL is not cheap at all, which counts for ~1/2 of CS. Also Forge is expensive, even you got them early, when can you finish them in your cities? Early Bureo nets you a lot, which is much greater than a forge can bring to you. Not mention the early saving from courthouse and early EPs.

My capital never whips, I did my 1st civic change when CS was in and then I adopted Bureo and Slavery.

 

[Halt]

Unsun - How do you take out Ulindi early?

Spoiler :

I have my warrior on the Jungle hill, I build 4 axes send them south. Where do I sit them (on the hill or outside the territorial borders) and when do I send them in to attack. I tried several ideas none worked. Once he gets walls up (which appears to be triggered by my presence) it is hopeless.

I am trying for GW, Jungle Hill in my borders for x2 GG's.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Duckweed,

Spoiler :

- I may indeed try holding the corridor with wood 3 men, fair chance they'll attack the city then
-The MC vs COL decision remains a difficult one CS is a bit more than 2 times COL so you take 1/3 off research time. But Forge in capital really helps and the other cities grow rather fast and can whip forges too. Early CS is very good on this map though.

@Halt,

Spoiler :

good find that route to jungle grown hill , i don't mind trying several times on this map but this i a bit too spoilerish for me .

 

[Halt]

Dirk- "but this i a bit too spoilerish for me " and that is why I said it was a "BIG" repeatable spoiler" rather than just a spoiler

Tried to warn any that look

 

[Halt]

It is 1320 BC and I have accomplished the big 4 I set out to accomplish

Spoiler :

It is 1320, and I accomplished what I wanted to do. I have sacked Ulundi, with GW will have a blocking city + fort on Jungle Hill (or is city on the hill better... torn?).

I know at this point besides having Conf, Judaism, Hindu, I will have a strong probablity of bulbing Theology if I choosing Meditation after Ironworking giving me Christianity as well (only reason to grab theology now is the civis and AP).

Thoughts?

Posted save as well for anyone wanting to pick up from here.

GW, Oracle 3 religions

Ulundi sacked

 

[Unconquered Sun]

It is 1320 BC and I have accomplished the big 4 I set out to accomplish

10 chars

 

[huerfanista]

@Halt
I'd take the fort. The 25% defensive bonus can't be bombarded away, and you can build it without removing the jungle, so you get that bonus as well. So hill+fort+jungle is a +100% defensive bonus that can't be bombarded away. What I'm not sure of is whether attacker CR promos work vs units in a fort. Even so, it seems the superior choice. I'd also make a couple of warlord units with my first GGs. Give them leadership + woody3 and they will rack up an insane number of promos. W3 gets 2 first strikes (not chances!), so they are very strong. Promote to maces (too bad you're not Japan, as samurais can promote along the drill line, which gives increasing immunity to collateral). W3+M1 heals as fast as a M3 unit. If you can get to MS, you can promo them to grens, which can get the drill and CG promos, and can upgrade to machine guns, then mechs. You can get over 1000XP with these guys if you have 3-4 of them.

 

[Halt]

@Halt
What I'm not sure of is whether attacker CR promos work vs units in a fort.QUOTE]
Yes they do work on CR Promos

I did take the Fort on the hill. Thanks!

 

[Crusher1]

Unsun - How do you take out Ulindi early?

Spoiler :

I can do it every time with a agr, bw, whl, iw build. I usually have 3-4 axe with 5-6 praets and I simply raze it and go from there. This may not be optimal though because I miss out on the oracle.

In about 15 other attempts where I delay IW and get the oracle I've only been able to raze Ulundi 2X - but each game then had a very strong position. The more I play this game the more I realize it's about making the best out of reloads with lucky circumstances

 

[ABigCivFan]

Spoiler :

I can do it every time with a agr, bw, whl, iw build. I usually have 3-4 axe with 5-6 praets and I simply raze it and go from there. This may not be optimal though because I miss out on the oracle.

In about 15 other attempts where I delay IW and get the oracle I've only been able to raze Ulundi 2X - but each game then had a very strong position. The more I play this game the more I realize it's about making the best out of reloads with lucky circumstances

Spoiler :

This game is designed for human to lose. The question is when.

If you want to play this game without any reload, here is what i suggest

1. dedicate all resources to build GW before 2440BC. This will save you lot of headache dealing with northern barbs. And get your first few GGs much much faster which will in turn give you much better chance to survive the first few thousand yrs. Also the first GSpy can be extremely valuable to get you several important techs.

2. Build troops non-stop, do not think your 15 Prats is "enough" for now. have some mix, siege, get LBs early.

3. Don't try to hold the choke hill, it is too far from your mil prod cities (i.e. Capital), a well coordinated attack by the 3 AIs can easily break through. It is more practical to do the battle close to your home base with much faster reinforcements. More importantly, it is much harder for the Big 3 to coordinate attack on a single point. Possibly have 2 strongholds which will divert their strength. Since they have to travel so far to do the fight.

4. Do not build Combat GGs, given the high number of battles, they will die. I suggest Medic3 scouts only. The rest settle and save some for later Mil Academies.

5. First 2 cities are prod cities, they can get 6 settled GGs each with Theo, that is 4 promo troops from 2 best cities. 2nd city is coastal.

6. Build a mix of defensive and offensive troops, e.g. G2+CG2 LBs, C1+Shock+Formation or just C3 Prats, Barrage3 siege and etc. Attack will get you GG points much faster than defense.

7. When Stalin come, let him take a small city near your capital, steal tech from him and try to stay close to him on Mil techs. The last phase would be purely defensive around your 2 military base cities. have plenty of defenders and you should be able to hold on until Stalin launch ship (~1900AD)

 

[DanF5771]

Regarding the Great Wall: For our brave imperialistic hero Julius Caesar this wonder increases the GG emergence rate by a 'whopping' +33% (4*XPs instead of 3*XPs) -- I skipped it, also because the barbs only start with Warriors here.