King Younk's Questions thread

[Gumbolt]

Your building mids? 1485 turns? 100% never happen.

You need workboats and culture with libraries or monuments. Your biggest issue is colonial costs should you ever leave this island. I fear for this game on such a weak start.

You killed the southern fish resource too. You killed a grassland with Birka. Hill was much better. Why would you run mine on low food games. Capital could grow quicker on 1f mine.

You are financial so sea tiles at 2f 3c with MC Colossus could work well. Cottage will be okay on normal grassland. You need an island city for 2c trade routes.

Really not sure about city placement here. This will be a cruel game given marathan speed. See how map plays out. How far can cottages and sea commerce take you this game? 2 food resources to carry you.

Sorry didn't look at workers.

 

[Gumbolt]

Trying a normal speed, pangea huge map. It takes forever. 1490ad with 110 cuirs I am only taking 2-3 cities a turn as my super medics are having to heal stacks. One backwards ai had a 50 strong stack. Another with a vassal and 14 cities was a huge pain due to muskets and so many injured cuirs. Even with 55 cities I fear I have a few hours to go. Largest AI has 12 cities and a 7 city vassal left. With all that extra land I could be 6% short. Meaning a final war is needed with one of the 4 AI left. Ranging from 8-14 cities each. Pretty much wiped out 4 AI. Even with most cities pumping out units I am making money at 0% science. 2 shrines providing 50+ gold a turn.

I think huge games can be interesting but ultimately a lot of work even when you reach critical mass on city numbers.No way I can really lose this game. If this was 10-15 year ago no way my computer could of handled this map with so many units. Not crashed once today.

 

[King Younk]

How do I stop the barbarians from spawning on a huge map?

 

[King Younk]

Also, I'm back on Emperor. I am playing as QSH, and building GW and Mids. My initial strategy is to build these two wonders and have a nice, compact core to grow from, utilizing every high value tile.

What do you think of my planned city placements?

Should I be farm-spamming to start (prior to even researching pottery), so that I can get my population up and at a nice equilibrium? I plan to set off an easily defensible area with river tiles to build cottages - my financial district, as I call it.

 

[King Younk]

Here's where I'm leaving off for the night.

I have farm-spammed everything, leaving my economy to be somewhat specialist-heavy once I get writing, and especially at CoL. I know that someone said that a Specialist economy is not something worth pursuing, but would the fact that I can get an extra 24 beakers a turn make it worthwhile for now?

What do yall think of this fine land now? I didn't pursue archery, despite being protective, though I have a plan to conquer much of France, get a Great General, and then spam archery units once reaching Feudalism, since I don't intend to conquer after that point (I have not come into contact with any other civs, so I assume it is just France and I on this island). I think that would be a wise use of the protective civic.

That said, what unit should I attack France with? A stack of Macemen or something? Once I have this island, I can expand profitably, since I have GW and mids. Will go for CoL next.

I will probably go for Space Race.

 

[Fish Man]

View attachment 608216

Here's where I'm leaving off for the night.

I have farm-spammed everything, leaving my economy to be somewhat specialist-heavy once I get writing, and especially at CoL. I know that someone said that a Specialist economy is not something worth pursuing, but would the fact that I can get an extra 24 beakers a turn make it worthwhile for now?

What do yall think of this fine land now? I didn't pursue archery, despite being protective, though I have a plan to conquer much of France, get a Great General, and then spam archery units once reaching Feudalism, since I don't intend to conquer after that point (I have not come into contact with any other civs, so I assume it is just France and I on this island). I think that would be a wise use of the protective civic.

That said, what unit should I attack France with? A stack of Macemen or something? Once I have this island, I can expand profitably, since I have GW and mids. Will go for CoL next.

I will probably go for Space Race.

turn 0 save?

 

[King Younk]

turn 0 save?

Don't have.

 

[Fish Man]

Don't have.

Can't play it to the end, then, since you've already made quite a few mistakes, including too many mines but not cottages, and building 2 stone wonders (that are pretty useless here) without any stone at all.

 

[King Younk]

I'm going to take the continent in about 50-100 turns, then do peaceful development. Paris is historically the land of the Chinese people, and to suggest otherwise is an act of war against the Glorious Chinese People and the Community Party of China!

Can't play it to the end, then, since you've already made quite a few mistakes, including too many mines but not cottages, and building 2 stone wonders (that are pretty useless here) without any stone at all.

I guess you know better than me, but didn't I open myself up to worker spam, and basically control a whole continent without high military expenses? I can spam Longbows and Gunpowder units for defense, coupled with some artillery and horses to meet the invaders when they land.

This should be setting me up for a space race victory, no?

 

[krikav]

@King Younk
Yes! You should be spamming farms! Good question.

Food is king, and everything you can do to maximize your empires food production is good.

 

[Fish Man]

View attachment 608218

I'm going to take the continent in about 50-100 turns, then do peaceful development. Paris is historically the land of the Chinese people, and to suggest otherwise is an act of war against the Glorious Chinese People and the Community Party of China!



I guess you know better than me, but didn't I open myself up to worker spam, and basically control a whole continent without high military expenses? I can spam Longbows and Gunpowder units for defense, coupled with some artillery and horses to meet the invaders when they land.

This should be setting me up for a space race victory, no?

Absolutely not...to win space, take over about 60% of the total land, adopt communism, and then spam workshops everywhere. Defense is unnecessary when you become literally too big to challenge and too far ahead to plot on. Just staying on your island and turtling is a losing proposition.

 

[Fish Man]

View attachment 608218

I'm going to take the continent in about 50-100 turns, then do peaceful development. Paris is historically the land of the Chinese people, and to suggest otherwise is an act of war against the Glorious Chinese People and the Community Party of China!



I guess you know better than me, but didn't I open myself up to worker spam, and basically control a whole continent without high military expenses? I can spam Longbows and Gunpowder units for defense, coupled with some artillery and horses to meet the invaders when they land.

This should be setting me up for a space race victory, no?

Additionally - see here and here for recent examples of how I gained and snowballed from an absolutely dominant position on noble and emperor difficulty, the latter being with a rather difficult boxed-in start. I won space t211 and t236, respectively, on standard speed, without basically a single espionage building built in both. Also, I did it on deity recently here and here.

 

[King Younk]

Spoiler :

Anyway, here's where I'm stopping for the evening. I just conquered the island, and can focus on domestic development and explore the world.

How should I approach such development? I'm thinking a cottage spam with a few cities dedicated to hammers.

@Fish Man - What did I do wrong in the early game? GW gave me a Great Spy that helped me conquer France, and the Pyramids will soon be put to good use with many cities running specialists.

My goal is for 25-30 cities or so, and to build Versailles on this continent, without much in the way of overseas expansion. I can hold the continent if I do not send my armies abroad, and I have a lot of +5 gunpowder units defending everywhere, while not concerning myself too much with military affairs beyond this.

 

[Gumbolt]

I don't get the 2 tile gap between all your early cities. here. Just means you have a lot of small cities and running specialists which isnt great outside goden ages.

No stone but you do get 50% bonus here from leader. Building GW and mids every game can lead to bad habits.

AI has much bigger cities here. Paris has a lot of cottages but at size 4 with 1 food resource it might struggle for growth.

Downside to what you dd here was you used a 1mp army to travel 30-40 tiles across the map. Maybe waiting for cuirs could of been better here? Let the AI build up it's cities. You would need to of found horse. CKN are a lot of fun anyway.

Wonder how far ahead the AI will be here? See how long you last. One runaway AI could undo you here. In isolation you have no control over this.

 

[King Younk]

Spoiler Globalization :

I've made contact with the rest of the world, and am catching up in technology. I think my main priorities are

1. Get Astronomy so I can trade my vast resources
2. Take all the worthwhile tiles
3. Build a Forbidden Palace, and if practical, Versailles to reduce maintenance
4. Adopt free religion so I can trade with the rest of the world
5. Build the Confucian shrine, spread that, and specialize the holy city as a financial one with a bank, market, grocer, and Wall Street.
6. Upgrade my military and build defensive gunpowder units (should I build Cho-Ko-Nu-s in those cities to take advantage of the upgrade? They were beastly in conquering the French).
7. Build workshops (though I don't know where - where should I build them?) in order to have a competitive Space Race civ.
8. Focus on Internet, Three Gorges, and Space Elevator. Also build Ironworks somewhere that I can build the Space Elevator.
9. Trade Printing Press for all that it's worth. Possibly get Scientific Method and Combustion early to get a head start on my navy? What should I be researching here.

It would be best if we asked and answered each other using number questions, for clarity's sake.

How would you approach this?

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Any military unit you build should have a specific purpose:

A) military police to station in every city that will soon grow to the point it needs one for happiness (incl HR additional units where profitable).

B) Specific units for a specific planned attack. Try to time the attack as precisely as possible so unit massing begins right at the nrw tech (or right before the tech with planned upgrades to be funded by Great Merchants which will be ready to give immediate cash).

C) Defensive units *when you know you need them*. Use BUG / BULL to get the indicattion of red fist indicating a civ is planning an attack,and try to back out of that peacefully, and THEN assume the worst and plan a defensive army.

Building units with the vague idea of a reserve for future attack / defend wastes early hammers, costs army supply cash, and can cost future upgrade bucks (upgrading is very inefficient in general, and should be done only to capitalize on a tech advantage).

Rifling could arrive foe the AIs before your CKN army lands, it is foolhardy that a unit which helped you 2 eras ago will be the key for the next war, even with a free protective upgrade (which you are tremendously overvaluing).

 

[pigswill]

i) Astronomy yes, I'm not sure what you'll get in resource trades but worth trying.
ii) No. You can't afford the cities you've got.
iii) Yes to FPal, unlikely to get Versailles (and you don't need it anyway)..
iv) Get out on Confu (your cities should be building wealth instead of buildings so you probably could live without OR)
v) Yes
vi)No. You need the cash for research.
vii) Workshops can wait (probably until Communism and State Property)
viii) Internet yes because you're miles behind. You'll probably be beaten to TGD and Space Elevator is a waste of time.
ix) For anything you can get, most AIs have it already.

 

[Fabled]

@NothingBesideRemains what's considered the best play with well promoted but obsolete units? Should I be disbanding an army after it's effective window has closed? I find I bleed a lot of money in unit support in most games keeping my classical stack around and hoping to maybe turn it into something useful later, but it rarely works out (although I haven't gotten the hang of timing great merchants for upgrade gold yet, that might make the difference).

 

[krikav]

I almost never disband obsolete units.
If nothing else, they can suicide against some AI city or stack.

I recall too, at least one game where I gifted alot of HR-warriors to an AI just prior to an attack, and then gunning them down for xp.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

@NothingBesideRemains what's considered the best play with well promoted but obsolete units? Should I be disbanding an army after it's effective window has closed? I find I bleed a lot of money in unit support in most games keeping my classical stack around and hoping to maybe turn it into something useful later, but it rarely works out (although I haven't gotten the hang of timing great merchants for upgrade gold yet, that might make the difference).

If you go heavy seige (like planning a cannon / artillery rush), any old units can 'do their part' in battle. Krikav's note about free xp is interesting, too. And of course make sure you take advantage of the HR potential of larger happy caps. Of course, all that is situational.

If you see no way to use them in the foreseeable future, strongly consider disbanding. If a replacement would be 60 hammers, then 1-2 gold per unit would be 30-60 turns before you get pure payoff (realistically, between wars beakers are probably more important than hammers, so the value of saving 1 gold per turn for 30 turns is probably more than 30 hammers).