Lanun Questions

[Alsark]

Alright, I have three questions regarding the Lanun.

1) I saw in a little tip thing during load-up that the Seafaring technology makes it so you get +1 food on worked water tiles but -1 food on farms. Is this true? The technology itself did not mention this... and the only time I had heard this was during the load-up screen. If this is true, is it even worth it to be the Lanun?

2) When playing as the Lanun, how many pirate coves should be built? Are they a good improvement, or should the ordinary farms/cottages/mines be built instead? If they should be built, upon which kind of terrain should they be built upon?

3) Are the Lanun even very good? Their primary bonus seems to be hijacking ships... but I've never been too crazy about navy. The only reason I really have an interest in using the Lanun is because Falamar is awesome.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

1.) I think it used to, but it doesn't seem to anymore. The Lanun Palace does provide +1 food from water tiles though.

2.) They are good, but should be used strategically. Pirates Coves aren't actually "built" like other improvements, but created though a spell. This kills the caster (the worker), and turns the tile to coast. (Note that this doesn't work well with the End of Winter mechanic; a tile still "thaws" and reverts back to land, destroying the improvement in the process.) You should probably build other improvements before sacrificing the workers, although keep in mind that these improvements do upgrade like cottages, and the top level is much more useful. If you build this on a tile that (although boarding water) isn't connected to a large landmass, it will form a very nice freshwater lake. Obviously, you can also use this to create canals, or to cut areas off from land units.

3.) The Lanun are good, but can be very situational and map specific. They are obviously best on Archipelago maps, and rather weak on maps with little water. Their Pirates are great for blockading rival, and also steal money when they win in combat. They are also the only civ with 2 national heroes (1 ship and 1 melee unit).

 

[Zechnophobe]

The lanun get +1 food from water squares, meaning that with a lighthouse, they'll produce 3 food (Fresh water produces 4!). Pirate coves are a VERY good improvement that produces a lot of trade and even a bit of production. Use your food advantage from water squares to produce a lot of workers to make as many coves as you can reasonably fit.

Strategically, the lanun have a very solid economy, especially the Financial leader. With good finances and food, comes fast growth, make sure to use this well. The 'thing' for the lanun is how powerful of an economy they can make, and it is partially fueled by their extra pearl resource squares, which can often be an early fast way to get additional happiness in your cities.

 

[SwampCow]

One of the best aspects to the cove is that they are unaffected by blight and Armageddon counter so you will take less of a hit when those trigger. I agree that Lanun are a much more situational civ than others but they are hurt by having a lame (or what used to be lame. Haven't tried them yet in .31) hero.

The thing that hurts them the most is in production, which is also unfortunate because they are hurt even more by it on maps they should excel at (archipelago). You can manipulate your empire to compensate, using various civics and religions, but in the end you will not have the hammer output of other civs.

 

[xienwolf]

Most strategies I have seen use gold rushing to compensate. And with Slaves it is even more effective.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

One of the best aspects to the cove is that they are unaffected by blight and Armageddon counter so you will take less of a hit when those trigger. I agree that Lanun are a much more situational civ than others but they are hurt by having a lame (or what used to be lame. Haven't tried them yet in .31) hero.

The thing that hurts them the most is in production, which is also unfortunate because they are hurt even more by it on maps they should excel at (archipelago). You can manipulate your empire to compensate, using various civics and religions, but in the end you will not have the hammer output of other civs.

Since .31, no improvement is affected by Blight.


(My modmod adds the Levee from BtS, with the Dike as the Lanun UB of it. That help production significantly, albeit not until you research Engineering (or should I make it machinery?). I'm also adding the Customs House/Feitoria, at Taxation.)

 

[SwampCow]

Since .31, no improvement is affected by Blight.


(My modmod adds the Levee from BtS, with the Dike as the Lanun UB of it. That help production significantly, albeit not until you research Engineering (or should I make it machinery?). I'm also adding the Customs House/Feitoria, at Taxation.)

Ah that would explain why last night I did not get hit as Calabim AV. Thought it was an AV bonus in .31 and not all civs. Good to know.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Recently been trying Lanun with FoL (Hannah) Land squares were pirate coves or Ancient forests, ocean squares are... ocean squares.

The logic here was to offset the production weakness in two ways: 1) Not having to build much in the way of workers (Except for trade network style tasks, and some mines) and by making it 'okay' to have my empire covered in forests. The happiness bonus of Guardian of Nature would also let them grow a fair bit bigger, so even if those Ancient forests are only producing 1 or 2 prod, they work MORE of them (Or ocean squares as need arises).

Guybrush is a lame hero, sure, but you do also get the black wind, which can be a surprisingly effective economic hero. Pillaging improvements, blockading, etc, does a decent job to contribute to cash flow.

 

[Ecofarm]

Working water tiles and coves will give you a TON of food and very good commerce, but very few hammers. I recommend grabbing Warfare Tech so you can run Conquest Civic and use food to build units. Also, you will probably want a civic that lets you cash rush for buildings.

 

[westamastaflash]

I agree with ecofarm - Conquest works great with Lanun. I also like to grab OO early so I don't have to waste hammers on obelisks. I love them on huge maps, because you can rack up immense trade route bonuses with them.

 

[Ecofarm]

Guybrush is a lame hero, sure, but you do also get the black wind, which can be a surprisingly effective economic hero. Pillaging improvements, blockading, etc, does a decent job to contribute to cash flow.

While this may be true in SP, it is not in MP. Also, it is not true for the AI. Why? Mages. A couple of fireballs or maelstroms and that boat is a sitting duck with no defensive bonus (-10%) and no fortify, ready to die to anything that can move on coast. With ~4 fireballs, Blackwind dies outright.

Spells should not affect boats (set 100% magic resistance). As it is, the AI building boats is a waste and the AI putting units on a boat is a tragedy.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I see no reason for boats to magic immune. If anything, they should be weaker to spells like fireball, tsunami, and maelstrom.

My one complaint about Boarding is that you cannot see the combat odds when atacking the ship. I don't like risking combat when I don't know the odds.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

While this may be true in SP, it is not in MP. Also, it is not true for the AI. Why? Mages. A couple of fireballs or maelstroms and that boat is a sitting duck with no defensive bonus (-10%) and no fortify, ready to die to anything that can move on coast. With ~4 fireballs, Blackwind dies outright.

If you're facing an opponent smart enough to throw spells at ships, and you're ending the black wind's turn close enough to the coast to be in range of the enemy mages, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Ecofarm]

If you're facing an opponent smart enough to throw spells at ships, and you're ending the black wind's turn close enough to the coast to be in range of the enemy mages, you're doing it wrong.

If you are not ending your turn in range, you are not:

Pillaging improvements, blockading, etc, does a decent job to contribute to cash flow.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Sail in, pillage (or fight a battle, Black Wind makes money from doing that), sail away, all in the same turn.

It's true that it can't blockade without getting creamed, but it can do anything else, including its unique ability to get money from defeated ships.

Also, too. You can't build fresh mages, and if you use the black wind on a civ that's fighting someone far away from it, your victim will have no available mages with which to slag the black wind. They'll all be busy with land battles. Just don't be a fool and put the black wind close to the border where the fighting is.

 

[Ecofarm]

Sail in, pillage (or fight a battle, Black Wind makes money from doing that), sail away, all in the same turn.

To pillage a resource adjacent to the city, you would need to have 5 movement to pillage and escape range 2. To escape range 3 you need to move 7 (move 3 tiles, pillage, move 3 away). To escape range 4, you need to move 9.

If the resource is 1 tile away from the city (that would be, in the 'fat cross'), the numbers are:
range 2: move 3
range 3: move 5
range 4: move 7
This also assumes no simultaneous turns, or being fast about it.

its unique ability to get money from defeated ships.

I will not leave ships in the open for you to kill unless the movement cost of you hitting it would leave you in range of fireball/maelstrom retaliation.

Also, too. You can't build fresh mages,

How early is blackwind? I suppose you could get optics early.

and if you use the black wind on a civ that's fighting someone far away from it, your victim will have no available mages with which to slag the black wind. They'll all be busy with land battles. Just don't be a fool and put the black wind close to the border where the fighting is.

Most people leave at least a mage per city (2 on coast), if they have mages, and a caravel ready to mop up.

Lanun has tons of awesome stuff, so a hero (blackwind) that only serves to teach someone to be careful with boats is ok, Lanun doesn't need a buff hero. But don't expect it to be leaving your enemy seafoodless or spending much time blockading (in the absense of a real navy anyway - where it makes little difference). You'll get one or 2 pillages that are 1 tile away from a city or 2 if you are careful, unless you get it very early.

 

[schlalex]

Hey,
i have a question about the pirate coves, too. I like the idea, that the Lanun could turn all tiles into water. Now, the coves cannot be built next to each other. Is it possible to change that, so that the Lanun's Empire mostly consists of water, their natural terrain? Thus, they wont be so limited on continental maps.